Shiny yet functional

You know how Etsy likes to put shiny things in front of sellers when they fuck up? Well this time the shiny thing is actually useful...if you're selling anything that is.

They've made the Orders(Sold) page (from the left menu of Your Etsy, fifth link under Items) more functional, as described by ericds in this forum announcement:

When you click "Show buyer address and message" we now remember that preference when you return to the page. If you prefer to see the buyer address and message, you no longer need to click that link each time you view your orders.

When you click the buyer username associated with an order, we used to simply send you to the buyer's profile. You now have options! Clicking the username reveals an overlay with links to send a Conversation to the buyer, view the buyer's profile, or view all orders from that buyer. It's now easy to contact a buyer from the Orders page and check if a buyer is a repeat customer.

I was a bit skeptical, but the execution appears clean and managable. Even the show/hide appears to actually remember my preference, even after logging out and back in. For those who like to reward return customers, the new way to view all orders from a buyer is going to make your lives easier. And the direct link to convo a buyer - well, it's about damn time!

We always say we'll give Etsy kudos when they're due, and they do deserve cookies for this...or better yet brownies...who's got the chocolate-flavored ex-lax?!

Seeing is Believing Etsy, but.......

As of 6/18/09, saralouhicks has finally posted a lengthy response to the SEO debacle in this forum post

EB certainly applauds the corrections to SEO search titles that Etsy promises to put in place (though it is copying Artfire yet again), but we’ve been around the block a few too many times with Etsy. Promises that arrive many days after the issue became the hot seller topic in cyberspace just don’t come across as all that sincere. We’ll believe it when we see it. (And wait with bated breath for the next nutty idea.)

Meanwhile, the damage already done will live on, and the negative publicity surrounding Etsy’s latest faux pas will add to the pile of mistrust constructed by Etsy’s inability and stubborn unwillingness to communicate with their sellers BEFORE they implement dramatic branding and marketing changes that affect every single seller on the site. This time they went too far.

We’d like to point out that Sara’s conclusion is a little off the mark:

We read that some of you believe our initial SEO approach was deceitful or mal-intentioned. This is not true.

While Etsy’s "initial SEO approach" may not have been mal-intentioned or even malicious, it WAS DONE WITHOUT seller input and without beta-testing. Disrespectful and deceitful, yes.

It was also done with COMPLETE DISINTEREST in how it might affect the sellers on Etsy.

It was done with the explicit intention of benefitting Etsy’s merchandising and branding plan and boosting Etsy’s numbers in search and search results. It was NOT done to provide a better search tool to send buyers to individual sellers (since the seller names fell off the Search grid). The proof is in the fewer views and fewer sales pudding.

The complete disconnect between Etsy and its sellers couldn’t be more evident.

Join the Etsy Community Council

In case you don't read the Dorque (who does really?) Etsy is forming a seller and shopper focus group to test improvements (supposedly). Yes-men only need apply? We'll see.

Here is the information and application. The application is supposed to close May 29th but is currently unavailable. Why? you may ask. Well, our astute commenters caught forum threads that explain - wait for it - Etsy was directing people to an unsecure site to provide personal information!

By the way, Etsy, there was no all-member email about this! Come on people, how many times do we have to spell this out? C-O-M-M-U-N-I-C-A-T-I-O-N...communication.

We'll see if this council ever gets off the ground - for now though, their idiocy is reconfirmed.

Edited 5/19/09 to include new information regarding Etsy's fuckwittery.

Etsy Addresses the CPSIA

The Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act has been a hot topic of discussion, and anger, on the Etsy forums. This U.S. law may negatively effect businesses that make and sell children's items - apparal, toys, accessories, etc.

From that thread linked above, Dec 1:

And is there an Etsy petition going to combat these ridiculous, stringent (but
unfortunately true) CPSC regulations?

Well, yes, 10 days later there sort of is. Etsy has written an open letter regarding their role and thoughts on the legislation that is to take effect February 2009.

As a venue for handcrafted and vintage items from small entrepreneurs, Etsy has invited the Ombudsman of the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission to join us in a webchat in our Virtual Lab. Etsy would very much appreciate the opportunity to provide a forum for discussing the concerns of artisans who make toys and children's products as well as their customers who support handmade products.

Good, and as a venue they probably won't be able to do anything without a recall taking place. But umm, when is this conversation with the bigwig going to happen? Yeah, I can't find that either. Ok, so maybe the ombudsman hasn't responded (then say so *cough* morons *cough*) Oh and did you notice how they threw vintage in there with the mention of handmade- they're learning!

They have a thread for discussion that consolidates 6 other threads from worried Etsians.

It's nice to see something addressed in a timely manner - though they probably should've been on top of it in August when the legislation first passed - but I'll give them a free pass on this one, it's been a rough week or so for the big E. Good to see they can multitask.

However, Etsy still has not addressed whether they will make sellers produce testing proof after the law takes effect. My take on it is that it falls into the same category they have for copyright - it's not their place to enforce (whether that's right or wrong is open to debate, I know). They need to be fair and equal, not enforce one thing but not the other.

Oh, and this was only in the Dorque and forums, so many sellers haven't seen it - I'm not even going to bitch about the lack of communication, you all know the spiel and I'm busy listing on Artfire.

Took the words out of our mouths...

A long-time Etsy seller has stated it so succinctly - Does Etsy know who their customers are and what they sell?

That's not a trick question - the answer is, the sellers.

And what are they selling? Predominantly art & craft.

And who are they? Independent, self-representing creative people.

Self-employment is tough at the best of times. In a recession, when you're making & marketing non-essential goods, it's even tougher.

Imagine my frustration to see a recent Storque article focused on bargains & sales with the opening lines:"

Feeling a little strain in your billfold lately, or simply trying to not to break the bank? Well, we hear ya, and we decided to run this special Storque edition called "Weekend Deals," highlighting some fantastic shop promotions and sales running this weekend only!"

What about the strain your customer base is feeling, Etsy? What about the sellers trying to get a *fair price* for their work?

In isolation, this article is no big deal. I have no problem with sellers offering sales, if that's how they'd like to operate their business, but I *do* have a problem with Etsy's ongoing inadequate marketing & misrepresentation of art & craft in the media.

In regards to art & craft, context is EVERYTHING. How many art & craft galleries do you know of who run sales & pride themselves on their bargain prices? How many of them like to represent themselves with terms such as "bric-a-brac" & "BOGO"?

That type of image is NOT the way to market art & craft. Key words to emphasise are terms such as..."unique", "exclusive", "quality", "bespoke" - not "two for the price of one this week only!"

Most galleries, you'll find, do their utmost to support & represent their clients - artists & craftspeople - by creating an environment in which they can achieve the best price possible for their work. It's mutually beneficial to do so.

We're selling HANDMADE, not knock-off watches on a street corner (remember that unfortunate image Etsy used to represent us?)

Please Etsy, get a handle on the products you're representing, who your customer base is & what they want & need, & the shopper demographic you should be targeting. In fact, start targeting *any* buyers, because we're currently all suffering for your pitch to recruit as many sellers as possible at the expense of a sustainable buyer/seller ratio.

Seen how low listing views are recently? I keep on hearing reports from admin that sales are up - but percentage of sales per seller are down, we all know that. We're all feeling it.

The most fundamental place to start supporting & understanding your customers & their products is at the most fundamental level - the categories.

I just did some quick sums...

There are almost 2.5 million items currently listed.

The average amount of listings per category is approx. 81,000

The Art Category's total listings are 335% the average.

To put that into context, the Jewellery category, Etsy's largest, has 800% the average, & Music, the smallest category, 2.4% the average.

There is TOO MUCH pressure on the Art & Jewellery categories & the sellers listing there are NOT getting the same value from their .20c listing as those in the smaller categories. With batch updates, new listings get lost within minutes beyond the extent that most buyers are prepared to browse.

It wouldn't be such an issue if we had advanced search, but we don't.

Sellers have called for a simple top level split to the Art Category between Reproductions & Original Art for about 2 years now. Last I heard from admin was it wouldn't be happening. The Jewellery category obviously needs some urgent restructuring too.

This is just one example of a total lack of understanding & support from Etsy towards its customers. It's really getting disheartening.

Actually, I'm way past disheartened now & actively trying other avenues - as they say, insanity is repeatedly doing the same thing & expecting a different outcome.

If you were quoted, congratulations and thanks! You can find yourcelebratory "I've been Quoted" (and other EB avatars) by clicking here.

Don't List!!

Once again, items are not showing up after listing, specifically relisting and renewing.

You won't get your money's worth so don't list right now.

MaryMary posted this thread where hopefully they will post when things are working again. Also, it would be nice if Etsy would email their members about this technical issue that effects exposure. Just randomly venturing into the forums and seeing the bug isn't enough for sellers to know about this issue.

Once again, Etsy, it's about c-o-m-m-u-n-i-c-a-t-i-o-n...all together now...COMMUNICATION!

Paying Debts Shouldn't Be So Hard

Surprise, surprise - a glitch

If you go to pay your Etsy bill and get a decline notice, check with your credit card/bank before attempting to pay again! Several users have reported double payments to Etsy because the decline notice Etsy gave them in billpay WAS NOT ACCURATE. The payments went through.

I personally agree with Ozarknana:

HHHMMMM, think I'll wait to pay mine until this bug gets worked out....bet they
jump on this one if they want to get paid this month!

Anyone remember the double billing fiasco when billpay was finally reinstated last year? And the lack of an autobilling feature that people thought was being used, but their bills weren't being paid so they had hundreds they owed Etsy when the new late system came into effect in January?

Yeah...good times.

Since there are no late fees and they don't prevent listing unless you're 2 months late, there's no penalty for waiting until the bug is fixed. Don't chance paying Etsy too much, it's your time wasted to call the credit card company and get your money back. Also, who knows if Etsy will register the payment even if they have the money. And we all know what it's like to deal with their 'customer service' reps.

Etsy seller: "I paid my bill, here's the confirmation number my CC company gave me."
Support: "What about shiny things?"
ES: "No, I said I paid my bill already. But the page says I didn't."
Support: "Oh, well that's because the card was declined."
ES: "But my CC company says they paid you."
Support: "They're lying."
ES: "What?"
Support: "Your bill is late."
ES: "IT'S NOT LATE!"
Support: "Yes it is. Did you try clearing your cache before calling your bank?"
ES: "WTF?!"
Support: "Don't get snippy with me. Here, have a cupcake"
ES: "I don't want a fucking cupcake. I don't want fucking shiny things. I want the system to register the money I gave you."
Support: "Your bill is late. mmm cupcakes nomnomnom"

From the Bitches Auxiliary - A rare perspective

One of our readers has taken the time to share some of his business experience with you. Though we're known for snark, we also feel all of our fellow grumpy haters should have tools available to them to survive without the big E. Plus, we know this is something you'll never see in the Dodo.

Firstly, I would like to introduce myself the best I can. I am a young man that has recently left college to try his dream at business. I have taken 2 years of business classes, and have run businesses for over five years, including a successful Etsy shop for over a year now. Etsy is my full time job.

I would like to explain why sales are usually a terrible idea for an Etsy shop. To begin, lets look at why a B&M has a sale. The answer is, to make money. And you say, how does a store make money from reducing prices? The answer is that the average person will go into a store for more than the sale item. They only run sales to get people through the doors of their store. That is all a sale does - get bodies through a door.

Stores make money from sales through careful planning. So lets look at an example sale a supermarket might run, “Coke products, five for $10." As someone who has worked at a grocery store, I can tell you they're losing money on that deal. But they run that sale around the Super Bowl, or Memorial Day, days a lot of grilled foods are consumed. So they run this great sale on soda to draw you in, and while you're there they mark up everything else. Since you're already there, you buy your hot dogs and buns at a greater mark-up, so they make up for the loss of the soda.
They do this by arranging merchandise carefully.
Now I'm going to list why sales are bad.

1. They don't attract customers in Etsy, as by the time the customer knows of the sale, they are in your shop.
2. Even if you make your avatar announce the sale, the average Etsy buyer is a first time user, so they never see that.
3. Most items on Etsy are handmade, most people just fall in love with the item, the price has little to do with the final sale.
4. Many people will question why this unknown Internet seller is running a sale. It can cause a consumer to lose trust in your shop and question why your'e doing a sale.
5. Sales will destroy your profit if your'e not careful.
6. B&M stores often have a triple digit markup so when they have have a sale they still make a lot of money
7. If a sale is not done properly, it will come off as unprofessional, which will hurt your reputation. (the proof of this is how it's easier for a seller with many feedbacks to sell then one without)
8. You are a craftsman, not Crazy Eddy
9. If you do your sale after the fact, such as through a refund with paypal, you will pay an Etsy fee on the money you have refunded.

I just hate when I see people run a sale, I feel it does nothing more then cut into your earnings.

Seeking links of former Etsians!

Have you left Etsy and taken your shop elsewhere? Do you know of those who have? We've received an email from an Etsy seller who is making a hub where former Etsy sellers can be found and the links to their new shops promoted. But she needs our help gathering the links! You can leave the information in comments here or shoot me an email (etsyanon.righteous@gmail.com). I'll forward the information so she can do her thing.

From the Bitches Auxiliary: The numbers

Etsy gave us some stats today - something we've been asking for for months, and months. This Auxiliary member punched some numbers, in the face.

"Here are the rest of June’s key numbers:
"$6.5 million of goods sold - roughly the same as May. That represented 442,000 items sold, a slight drop from May’s number. 742,000 new items were listed, up from 730,000 items last month. 80,000 new members joined the Etsy community, including 15,000 new sellers, both slight increases from last month."

Here's what I can figure:

1. Page views is internet-ese for just what they are, page views. The total does not break out what views are being counted in the ecommerce realm, and how many views are being tallied for Labs, newsletter articles, tools and toys, forum visits and all the other non-store sections of the site. And how many of the page views are sellers checking in on their stores to add, delete, edit, etc. their inventory.
   
   
2. The drop in (or stagnant) sales totals from June compared to May is the first sign that things aren't so rosy for Etsy, the money collector.
   
   
3. Do remember that they added 15,000 stores, BUT SALES were stagnant, or in reality, dropped. 4. 742,000 items listed means what? 742,000 new items or 742,000
   
   
4. RELISTED items? And it's only 12,000 MORE than May, which means a huge chunk of the listings are from 15,000 NEW STORES.
   
   
5. Numbers can be deceiving, and why Etsy has chosen to "share" these numbers is also deceiving. They might mean something on the macro level, but what do these stats mean to sellers? Not a goddamn thing. Other than, retail isn't doing so good in the current economy, and Etsy is doing nothing at all to help sellers sell with new promotions, sections for special sales and bargains, something other than Etsy Finds to entice buyers to look, and ignoring constant requests for the company to run an advertising campaign. If, next month, Etsy decides to share stats again, what will they show?

What the Fuck Is Going On Here?

We’ve seen not one, not two, but THREE different forum threads within the space of 24 hours asking what the hell Etsy thinks it is. Sellers are fed up and feeling screwed.

It’s getting pretty old hearing admins say, “Thanks so much for your input and terrific suggestions. We’ll make note of your ideas and will continue to discuss (read: laugh at, then ignore) them and we’ll get to work on making the site a great place to sell your handmade goodness.” Look at DanielleXO’s adorable comments in one thread – she’ll pass our comments along and will get to work on scheduling a whole bunch of things we’ve been asking for for the past three years. Thanks for your feedback, Danielle!

All this makes me think that pretty much everything Rokali says is bullshit. His forum thread and Storque article on “Focusing Our Priorities” says “we’ll use your input to prioritize development.” Clearly I missed all the input asking Etsy to prioritize fluff and to give us more “sharing and caring,” more play time for EtsyLabs staff, and more tutorials on how to half-learn a craft and make crap you can then list and relist for months on Etsy.

In January, Rob read us a nice bedtime story and then proceeded to give us his grand vision for spending the $27 million that Etsy sucked up. Let’s see – what did he promise? Improvements to checkout, a better search function, an effort to “grow and improve” Etsy service “from customer support to shopping tools.” And then he capped it off by saying, “As Etsy grows, the responsibilities to our sellers grow.”

Did I miss something? Was there a flood of requests for more fun in the Labs from Etsy users? Doesn’t it sound like Rob keeps promising BUSINESS-BASED improvements? WTF is going on in Brooklyn?

To the cheerleaders who think the tutorials sound fun, and who don’t understand why people are worried the classes will detract from their business – you’ve missed the fucking point. And apparently, so has Etsy. We want SALES tools before fluff. The cute stuff won’t placate us while we wait for something we can actually use. If Etsy wants to be Craftster.org, or wants to teach users how to make a Swimmy from pipe cleaners and toilet paper rolls, that’s great. But don’t claim to be a place to “help people make a living making things” if that’s not what you are. I don’t pay fees so I can spend an hour watching Anda fuse plastic bags.

It appears that we need tutorials on how to choose an ecommerce platform for your independent website, how to market your own shop, and how to write a business plan that doesn’t include an Etsy shop. Perhaps the Bitches and friends will get to work on those, so we can give you something useful. In the mean time, don’t bother saving me a seat for Cupcake Night.

Quotable Quotes - Getting the shaft

Shameful

I was a participating artist at the Renegade craft show in Brooklyn this weekend where etsy had a booth front and center. Let me tell you about the image I got from them there. Thier booth was uninspiring and I was unimpressed.

I went by 3 times to see if once, I'd get anything from them. A "hi". A "are you a vendor here?" I got plenty of free chapstick. but that was about it. I thought that in the 16 hours that I was at the show, that maybe one of the many people from etsy would come by and say hi, or come by and talk up etsy at least to me or one of the many vendors around me. Nope.

Etsy talks about grass roots but being handed a flyer means nothing to me. Having someone actually taking the time to talk to the people who support them and their so called "hand made pledge" is quite another thing.

Do they really expect us to support them when we do not get the same in return?

I think marymary's comments and new thread is yet another smokescreen to avoid answering some very important issues people have here.

From spending some time on the forums and also knowing in advance that I would see them at the show, I got exactly what I thought I'd get from etsy. Next to nothing.

Quotable Quote - Amen!

Preaching to the choir:

I believe the level of customer service you receive is proportionate to the level of respect a company has for it's customers.

Lack of or poor customer service tells me that the customer is not held in high regard.

Good customer service tells me that I, as a customer, am valued and appreciated.

Given the fact that nearly 3 years in existence with no discernable customer service, it is safe to assume that as customers, we mean very little to Etsy. Except for what they can bleed out of us in the way of listing, renewing and final value fees if we are lucky enough to also sell what we list.

I have never seen a site where people are so grateful and thankful for shoddy service and poor communication. This tells me that they really have no clue what else is out there.

Quotable Quotes: Throwing Down the Gauntlet

"apology accepted, but don't mess with me again"

W.J.W.

Keep Your Day Job - A Farce...Or Not

When you first started selling on Etsy, did you have dreams or goals of eventually quitting your day job?

It started as a hobby, a way to support my crafting habit, but then I saw Etsy as a stepping-stone, a way to work towards running my own business. The community was so encouraging in that regard and every where I turned I was told that that’s what I should aspire to.

Apart from creating things, what do you do?

Oh, I don’t have time to create things anymore. I spend all my time on the Etsy forums in promotions. I also relist 35 times a day, but I can’t tell if it’s helping my views.

How long were you selling on Etsy before deciding to switch over to Etsy full time?

It wasn’t a conscious decision. I found myself needing to renew items, respond to emails, and track the status of my items constantly throughout the day. With customers waking me at 9am because they couldn’t tell if they had paid for their purchase, even after I had worked all night and gone to bed at 6am*, it was a necessity rather than a choice. I even have a friend helping me answer emails and ship and it’s not enough*.

What made you decide to keep your day job?

I have to pay my Etsy bill somehow. Unfortunately, constantly checking my email at work gets me into trouble.

How have you promoted and marketed your Etsy business?

I spend about 4 hours in the promotions section bumping my own thread, but it’s better to bump others’ threads. It looks less greedy. I also set my alarm for an hour before the treasuries open up so I can get one of them or when ad space spots are going to become available. Littering business cards where people will find them has actually worked out better than any of these techniques, though. So now I spend several hours a day dropping them from random places. The $4,700 in listing fees* I spent last year can hire a plane and I get a larger audience by dispersing them over the county.

Can you walk us through what a typical workday might entail?

Sure. I put on the coffee, turn on the computer, and check my email. I then sacrifice a walmart smiley in effigy to the Etsy Gods. Before going to work, I check to make sure what’s going out that day is ready for the mail carrier. I go to work for 8 hours, come home, and get orders ready to go out the next day. After comparing the Etsy and paypal addresses on every order* that came through I send a convo thanking the customers. Once a week I have to make time to call my credit card company to make sure Etsy hasn’t double charged my fees.

What goals have you set for the next few months and year?

To set up my own website with a shopping cart that’s fully integrated with Paypal*. I figure it’s a step up, and cheaper, than my current situation.

Do you foresee quitting your day job anytime in the future?

No, I’ve already had to sell my cat’s toys as supplies, take out a second mortgage, and take on a second job as a phone sex operator to pay my listing fees and advertising costs.

Any other thoughts?
The biggest problem I face with Etsy is that people think that because I'm the individual artist I will bend my policies, or prices. They see people that will do work for between 1-5 dollars an hour. So when you charge a mark-up on supplies, and charge labor rates above slave labor, people take offense.


Thanks to a Bitches Aux for the last quote, which, unlike Etsy's Day Job series, is not bullshit.
*Inspired by true events, unfortunately.

Etsy says “Quit Your Day Job”

Really? There are now six articles in the Storque promoting the idea that people can make a living on Etsy with that title. Really?

These are mainly interviews with sellers that have been able to quit their day job by selling on Etsy. They are the success stories, if you will. Though there is an opt-in Etsy Success newsletter, they choose to spend man-hours writing Storque articles on the matter, too. Well, they’re mainly just formatted interviews.

Let me focus on the idea being sold – that Etsy can change your life. That Etsy has been responsible for the businesses that have ‘made it’. That Etsy deserves a little praise and faith on our part. Nevermind the countless hours of promotion a seller has to do to 'make it'. Nevermind the fact that most sellers that 'made it' can also make it on eBay or at local craft fairs or brick and mortar shops (depending on their particular trade/items) because of their own talent. Nevermind the fact that many sellers who ‘make it’ (talented or no) are heavily promoted and put forth by Etsy themselves, which results in more exposure and sales. With 100,000+ shops, it is impossible for a good number of them to be promoted to the extent the others have been and actually make a living selling on Etsy.

With a revenue stream based on renewals and relistings and high item retention (over 700,000 new listings in May but only 449,000 sales, which are sold from a pool of all previous month’s listings which also have that terrible balance of nearly 1:2), it is statistically impossible that the dream they are selling can come true for more than a handful of people. And those spots have already been filled, most likely in Etsy’s second burgeoning year before the marketplace became saturated and the economy tanked.

Now, let’s revisit the theme – that it is possible to make a living selling handmade. Should I note that the majority of top sellers on Etsy are supply shops. Oh, and according to the article the latest interviewee still has a day job to bring in a consistent paycheck. And, according to a self-proclamation on the forum, another in that sextet had to take a break because of the demanding pressures…assumingly of working without help.

Be able to quit your day job my ass.

The EB Calling-Out Policy

Our newly faithful readers have been sending us future 'bitchfodder'. Thanks!!!

A few folks have sent us Etsy sellers to bitch about that are new international retailers with factories and dozen of retail outlets in five countries, and multiple websites. Handmade? Oh hell no. But that doesn't stop them.

I thought I'd like to take the opportunity to express exactly what our policy will be for 'calling out' sellers.

At this time we're not going to call out these instances. It's a fine line so we've decided that we'll keep an eye on them and not pick on them specifically (since it's obvious Etsy doesn't give a tinkers if sellers actually are handmade by not acting on flags or reports). But should that factory shop make be made a featured seller... the gloves come off since Etsy has a noticeable habit of making some incredibly poor featured seller choices, often letting them trade a place in the choir for a favored place on the front page. We hate that as much as you do. We're not gonna stay quiet on that.

We might reverse ourselves later, but for the immediate future sellers will not be attacked individually for merely selling -- unless they do something brilliantly stupid in the forums. Since Etsy doesn't approve/jury sellers to sell on it's site. It's an blind automated process, and since there is a flagging system we have to give Etsy a chance to fail before attacking them for not enforcing it. It's more fair than they deserve.

Don't worry though, Admin are another issue, we'll continue snarking on them until our fingers bleed! Yeehaw!

Keep sending us in stores that violate the Etsy TOS - we're keeping a list!
We'll be also more than happy to help you and gang-flag them in the meantime!

Feel free to comment, we unlike Etsy, want to know what you think!