Thursday, September 23, 2010

Whazzzup Etsy? Transactions Cancellations Fiasco

With the long lists of seller-requests for tools and improvements to the site, many years-old, we can’t figure out why Etsy is fixated on screwing around with faulty systems by coming up with solutions that are worse than the original problem!

Out of the blue, indec posted this change to Transaction Cancellations imposing a 48-hour rule for no reason whatsoever:

...both the buyer and seller will receive a notice right away that the seller has requested that the transaction be canceled. The notice will include the reason provided by the seller. The request will be processed 48 hours after the notice is sent, so that the buyer or seller can contact Etsy support if there are any problems prior to the order being canceled. Both buyers and sellers will be able to leave feedback for each other during the 48-hour holding period.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?????????????

Etsy sellers immediately started several threads with valid arguments that clearly show that this whacko change leaves sellers at more risk than ever from NPB’s, bad buyer feedback, and not only robs sellers of payments for problem transactions, but makes them wait 48 hours (or more) to return the unpaid item to stock!!!

Come on, Etsy!!!!!! What were you thinking?

Thanks to quick and smart seller response, we have another Etsy Retraction!!!
The non-sensical, totally bizarre change to Transaction Cancellations has been SCRAPPED!

See what iotes has to say here:

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6635381


What the hell will Etsy come up with next?

60 Comments:

sark said...

*throws up hands and sighs, loudly*

Every time the engineers roll something out I attempt to ignore it, as I have attempted to ignore this.
I started reading one of these threads, and spaced out at the point where etsy users started complaining about etsy officially encouraging NBP to leave feedback (which I really hope is not the case).

Every dumbass motherfucker who works at etsy should be forced to have a shop under a different username which in no way, shape, or form indicates that they are etsy employees and does not link to any etsy employee account or any other official seller account they may have. With this ordinary account:
They should be disallowed from promoting their own shop, joining teams, making treasuries, buying showcases, or featuring their own items in the finds — and then see how much shit they sell. They should also be forced to list 1 item every day, no renewing allowed (unless it's expired). The only place they may promote their items is specifically in the "promotions" section of the forum...

And then, maybe these dumbasses will realize what actually needs to be done (which is that etsy needs to spend money to advertise the site to people who have money to spend on actual items). Because while they will all spend a minimum of $6.00 a month in listing fees — like all of us: they will get nothing in return, the least of nothing being the "no sales" or "zero sales" that so frequently occur for the vast majority of people who list on the site.

And then they should ignore themselves and see if they still feel like taking time out of their days to only promote shit made by other people.

The listing process is arcane. I listed 4 items on artfire in the time it takes me to list one item on etsy — and on one page no less. My photos auto-uploaded, I didn't have to remember to click a box...

I have emotionally distanced myself for the time being, and am mulling over the prospect of spending the bucks for a pro account on artfire.

Are they going to charge me $6 for the 6 remaining days in September, or does the charge not kick in until the next month — anyone?

The Funny One said...

This latest Etsy trick just underlines the fact that Etsy is out for Etsy, no more, no less. This crap and other recent changes have made Etsy sellers incredibly vunerable to all kinds of risks & fraud that could have dire consequences. This NEVER crossed Etsy's limited vision. Protecting their sellers is so far down their list that it doesn't exist.

To add insult to injury, the retracted 48-hour plan stated that all transaction disputes would be triaged by an Etsy customer service function that DOES NOT EXIST!

Can you imagine leaving your customers in the hands of Etsy Admins?

Take another look at AF and their new announcement about a health insurance option. Now THAT is looking at handmade ecommerce from a sellers' perspective!

We might be nearer to the day when more sellers leave Etsy than join, fingers crossed!

miznyc said...

See this right here (along with the identity snafu) is the sort of thing that makes lazy ass sellers like myself who don't have their own web presence (and doing well on Etsy) put that ish in gear real fast.

WTF!?!?!?!?!? I'm glad you all are here to report on these things, otherwise I'd be clueless.

Was this short-lived change emailed out to all sellers? I sure didn't see anything hit my inbox...

Jen Segrest (verybigjen) said...

sark said:
"They should be disallowed from promoting their own shop, joining teams, making treasuries, buying showcases, or featuring their own items in the finds — and then see how much shit they sell. They should also be forced to list 1 item every day, no renewing allowed (unless it's expired). The only place they may promote their items is specifically in the "promotions" section of the forum..."

Now, I don't want to make this a rahrah AF comment, but damn it, I need to make a point...

I'm an "admin" there and I am ineligible for the front page, emails, tweets, being posted in the forum side bar, featured artisan - none of it. I can buy an ad, and have, on the site and others, but I get NOTHING of the promotion our members get.

You know why? I demanded it. After being on Etsy for years, and reading this blog, I knew AF had to be more ethical and not forget who we work for. I make sure we don't have those problems, it's not hard! I don't understand why people put up with it over there.

I wouldn't have it any other way. We sometimes think out things too much. Which if you ask me, with my past history with Etsy and all, is a refreshing change.

socks said...

This latest crazy idea definitely pulled the focus from the security breach, though. What clever timing on their part to distract everyone with a different fuck up.

Eveline said...

As posted in one of the threads on the subject:

I've been thinking about this... Did Etsy plan on retracting this after a little while? So we can be allll happy about Etsy again? Because look, they listened to our complaints and 'fixed' it so quickly! Isn't it amazing?

I know I sound cynical, but usually when they mess things up, they dazzle us with a brand new shiny tool that nobody asked for, trying to distract us from said mess up. Maybe this time they did not have a new shiny tool to distract us with and this was the best they could come up with...

The sad thing is, I would not put it past them....

cutmeup said...

I have a few points, if you don't mind.

I think the new art fire look is awesome and I love the tools. but, how will the customers find it? I loathe etsy, but I cannot move my stuff( I make winter items) to a venue with so little traffic. I'd love to, though.

The latest etsy 48 hour fuck up was implemented by Ian of etsyhacks. Has he gone over to the dark side? I don't care if it was rolled back. There is no thinking going on.

Lastly, I just want to thank Fred Wilson for these cutting edge employees. Are you sure they don't still need someone to cut their meat?

Tula said...

Good grief! Etsy is sounding more and more like eBay every day. The whole NPB's being allowed to leave feedback thing has been an ongoing issue at eBay for years. Why is it so hard for these venues to understand why this is a Bad Thing? All employees of these venues should be forced to actually set up shop and use the platform like sark suggested. Then maybe they'd have a clue about what sellers really need.

On another note, I want to thank this site for bringing ArtFire to my attention. I had dismissed it when I first heard of it, figuring it was just another fly-by-night venue trying to be like Etsy or eBay. I boppped on over there this week and was super-impressed with the place. The site has a clean, smooth layout and appears to run efficiently, plus it allows multiple payment options and doesn't require users to register in order to buy. And from what little I've read in the forums, the people who run the site actually listen to the sellers. What a concept!

I'm going to experiment with listing there along with Etsy and see how it performs. I suspect it's going to be an interesting comparison... especially if Etsy keeps monkeying with things all through the 4th quarter.

One Woman Show said...

There was also the navigation & shops refresh that was rolled out...screwed things up...then was rolled back...now today they're saying no, it wasn't this roll out, it was a different problem that screwed sellers over so...this will be rolled back out again.

Whatever etsy dumb forks...

Anyone who is a professional should not deal with such an unprofessional company.

There is a mass exodus happening, the one-woman-show of artisans are leaving etsy and heading to artfire, just watch it happen en mass Oct 1.

Etsy will be left with re-sellers and their group of fave biddies. I completely believe that's the way they want it.

They want re-seller & mass produced goods shops who are willing to pay to renew & renew, aren't concerned about customer service, and will leave etsy staff alone.

Etsy doesn't want to be bugged by sellers. They're too busy being cool. They just want the money to keep rolling in while they play nerf ball, eat free lunches and vogue around Etsycorp.

I say let them.

I'll be busy handmaking items and selling them online at my website and Artfire.

No Etsy drama. Sounds good to me.

Amenhotep IV said...

The fact that almost every new roll-out (except the Suggested Shops BS) has been rolled back tells me something.

It does not say that the Etsy community is intolerant of change, as some of the forum cupcakes posit. It does not say Etsy can't do anything right, 'cause of all the "mean complainers" in the forums.

It says that Etsy needs a REAL QA department.

It says Etsy needs more beta testing, planning, and, again QA sessions before rolling out changes.

It says Etsy obviously does not think things through, from all sides, as in the sales tax fiasco.

It says Etsy should be polling at least the community council for feedback from all angles, before wasting time developing new code, or at least before implementing new code.

It says Etsy needs a better staging site, before making changes live.

It says Etsy needs to request info from the sellers BEFORE implementing busines-related changed, to at least gauge if they've overlooked something (like sales tax regions, county tax collection, collecting taxes in more than one state, etc.).

Did I mention QA? Etsy, you know what I'm talking about...

Or, ermm, at least I HOPE you do.

itstoolate said...

I think the new guy, Adam, from Google was brought in to get the IPO going.

Once there are stock holders involved the only concerns will be about the money.

Everyone knows how much resellers make for etsy and how little trouble they cause.

Then they can hire real engineers and a marketing department.

Oh, handmade, where art thou?

owlsandpie said...

A little off topic.. So I'm new around these parts and kinda of new to etsy. I have a few questions..

I've only purchased one thing from there but not because lack of trying, the search feature or lack thereof drives me nuts! I'm not about to go through 100's or even dozens of pages to find what I'm looking for! Why don't they make it easier to find something?

I have a friend selling vintage clothes on etsy she says she is doing well and has dreams of this being her real online business, do you know anyone who has been able to do this without the support of unemployment checks and a husband who works? Not trying to be snarky, just trying to understand if she could really have a viable business.

M2bC said...

In response to Sark's question: "Are they going to charge me $6 for the 6 remaining days in September, or does the charge not kick in until the next month — anyone?"

The $5.95 gets activated on October 1st. If you open a basic shop before then and opt-in to the offer then you will be charged nothing for September and $5.95/month starting on Oct 1st.

As for Etsy.....yea, whatever.

GrowUP said...

Etsy is a kindergarten class with no one in charge.
Why must they hire such fools and losers? That's a rhetorical question.
I detest being controlled by people who don't know their asses from first base because they have no knowledge of the game.

I am extremely glad that ArtFire exists as an alternative. I can wait for the traffic because I know it won't be a long wait.

Truthful said...

Are we still talking about that BLOG etsy…LOL

Here’s a hint. When people start to crochet dildo’s and post them on an online blog so they can get lots of etsy celebrity attention you know it’s time to run. By the way how would you explain those mysterious rashes on the inside of your nana to the gynecologist? LMAO…LOL…SMH.

If you look hard enough you can find some REAL handmade celebrities that were pretty much forced into opening a profile in order to prevent some etsy asshole from stealing their identity in order to make a quick buck. But they stay under the radar and are pretty sick of being starker food for trolls and ripped off. Even big named companies are having this same problem. You can sue these people and force them to stop using your name but they are broke and you will have to pay lots of cash just to make them stop. They will pay nothing and will do it to someone else.

Stop looking for quick cash and get off etsy so we can all smile and watch it burn.

If you stay with someone that hurts you constantly then you must love the pain. You “Love The Way They Lie”. Rokali needs to wear a wife beater t-shirt in his next video.

ShoppingForAnAlternative said...

What the hell is WRONG with those people???

How can a group of people so consistantly get everything so fucking wrong?

Cat Power said...

sark....if you have opened a Basic Artfire shop which is free, simply sign on for the $5.95 deal and it will go into effect on the 1st of October.

Easy as that!

RRobin said...

This isn't new. As far as I know, it has always been like this. I had a non-paying buyer leave me negative feedback in an incident three years ago after I cancelled the sale. I was told at the time that there was that 48-hour window, but I was able to get the feedback removed thanks to a sympathetic person at Etsy who was able to help me out (sorry I don't recall who it was or know if they still work there). But of course, it wouldn't have been necessary if Etsy didn't have that stupid window in the first place.

Bratty Cat said...

They simply cannot do anything right.

I'm not saying that like 'waah, people complain no matter what they do', I'm saying what we all know, which is that every single thing Etsy does is poorly thought out, poorly designed, the implementation is flawed, and even the release of the software is flawed.

Fire everyone, start over. Mainly get rid of that snobby tool, rokali who thinks he's such a damn visionary. This is all pretty much his fault. The investors appear to have been taken in by his lies and tricks, god knows why. I'm pretty sure if I was in a room with him for more than 5 minutes I'd strangle the bastard.

SusanA said...

Cutmeup says:
I think the new art fire look is awesome and I love the tools. but, how will the customers find it? I loathe etsy, but I cannot move my stuff( I make winter items) to a venue with so little traffic. I'd love to, though.

How will they find me? Thru google, thefind- yes everything goes immediately to gb and thefind.com a
You can have a kiosk on FB and a cart so people can buy from your website.
And the AF search engine actually works. Tony tells all about the difference here- http://www.artfire.com/modules.php?name=forums&op=view_topic&tid=13240

sign up by the first for just one month to get the 5.95 a month and test it out.

Amenhotep IV said...

itstoolate said...

I think the new guy, Adam, from Google was brought in to get the IPO going.
----------

it's true. I've mentioned on here before that I have worked for a number of tech companies that were rushing toward IPO. All of them had venture capital support. All of them thought that the IPO was the holy grail, the end denomination.

All things that were done from the point certain team members came on board, was done for the sake of the public IPO.

Etsy is not concerned about individual sellers, "the mission," or anything else like that. At least not at the upper levels.

Some of the employees may still think they're working on the greater good, the bigger mission, the idea of a "handmade movement," but the little guys in the company don't know shit about what's going on with the VC people, the big bosses, the people working on the IPO.

I can guarantee it.

So, the forum mods really DO think Etsy cares. The middle staff probably does, too.

VC guest invest for a good return. They don't care about individual people, or minutia. They care about getting a product (in this case, a packaged retail website concept) and taking it public, so they can sell stock for millions.

Etsy is no different from the thousands of companies that used to be documented on the FuckedCompany.com website, before pud finally retired it.

growup said...

@Amenhotep IV

I agree with your assessment of the IPO VC frenzy at etsy.

While the little Brooklyn girls are playing at merchandizing and crafting the front page of foxes and cowls, the VC's are quietly at work.

Shoring up the infrastructure, fronting the company with a grown up and getting the financials in a row.

Hey etsy middle management, yeah, you, we know you are reading this...better get your resume together. You will NOT be needed when the company goes public.

Computers will do everything you do and if Rob tells you otherwise, the guy who forged his way into 3 colleges and you beleive him....oh, come on, could you be that stupid?

Violets new Vintage said...

Artfire has many help articles right on site to assist Etsy refugees in setting up a successful shop there. I just started to pay attention to my shop there and made two sales. It seems strange to say this, but I feel sorry for Etsy.

The Funny One said...

Amenhotep is correct on both posts here, but missed one major Etsy flaw.

Rokali-arino and Chad-arino are 100% responsible for failing to supervise the daily posts in the Announcements Section of the Forums which are:
*vague and confusing
*full of unrelated crap
*are usually followed by several more posts to correct the multiple errors in the first post
*are clearly posted without any review or edits
*contain links to threads that are just as bad and confusing as the original Announcement.

If Etsy wants to get its basic shit together for an IPO, then they better do something about the many employees who make public statements that are wrong, flawed, confusing, and damage the company's reputation.

Because they do, every one of them.

There is so much unsupervised and unedited employee public activity on the site that its a crap-fest.

shellshock said...

Do any of you have experience with Dawanda or Folksy? I'm moving to the UK next month and want to shut down my Etsy shop and move to those venues.

Amenhotep IV said...

The Funny One, you are absolutely right.

Etsy can't even do a VC scramble for millions correctly.

At the other companies I worked, Rokali and the gang would have been canned or forced into public silence for the sloppy image and unsupervised employee behavior.

In fact, a lot of them would be gone in a REAL company, planning to go public or otherwise.

DirkDiggler said...

Until someone shows me that Artfire brings in traffic, I am not interested.

The Righteous One said...

shellshock, Dawanda is pretty big in Europe (Germany in particular) and one theory I have as to why Etsy put an office there. The site has been making a lot of changes (positive as far as I can tell) and is pretty good about general communication. There are probably some UK folks who can help you with more specifics, but I've heard some positive things about folksy as well.

Libby at Picklevalentinevintageglassbeads said...

To those who doubt that ArtFire brings in traffic, I don't know how I can prove it to you, but I started receiving more views in my shop immediately than at Etsy. At AF I also tend to have large multiple item sales. And best of all, I never have to renew to get seen. In fact, renewing hurts us.

I am a vintage glass bead seller and was in the top 500 supply sellers on Etsy until March 12, when my shop suddenly disappeared. I discovered that Etsy was directing traffic to old sold out items rather than to new items in attempt to show potential investors how many links they get.

As I said before, all roads lead to Etsy and screw the seller. Overnight my GA went from low bounce rate, high page views, mostly new buyers, to no new buyers, higher than high bounce rate, virtually no page views. I went from 2-3 substantial sales a day to maybe one or two sales a week.

I estimate that there were initially about 600-1000 of us who tanked at the same time. We never did get a decent answer, or any answer, just gratuitous advice to improve our pictures, maybe change our banners...just ridiculous condescending shit. Maybe my pictures could stand some improvement, (my buyers love them and say they make the beads look as they do in hand), but they are not artsy. But to say pictures need to be improved to Surrender Dorothy, Petit Poullalier, Uknowuneedanother, please.

Many of the people that were initially hurt were very successful vintage and supply sellers. One thing I think we all had in common was that we were older and outspoken. Just too coincidental, you know.

At first we were bashed like hell for trying to find out what had gone wrong, but a funny thing happened on the way to the forum....and kept happening. More and more sellers kept joining us in the pits. So if you haven't tanked at Etsy, I'm happy for you.

One issue at Etsy has always been syndication, which simply means that your product is being sent to Google shopping. My new listings show up on Google shopping almost immediately at AF.

My best suggestion is that if you are in doubt about starting a free shop now with the $5.95 option is to go and read the forums at AF and see how the AF admin responds to us. Since I've been there, they have done everything they said they are going to do.

And now they even have a health insurance option. Unfortunately, it is only open to crafters but maybe that can change. But what other site does this or even thinks of it?

I left Etsy early this month. The sales tax thing did it. I don't trust Etsy any more to do the right thing in terms of safety and security and I refuse to list on such a shaky site. The leak of names confirmed my lack of trust.

Another thing I'll say. I could be doing a lot better at AF but I have been very ill this summer. I have a rare genetic inflammatory disease and it has flared up so badly that some days I can hardly move. I have been in the hospital twice in the last two weeks. But I still keep having sales even though I can't do as much as I would like. I can only imagine what I could do if I were in good health.

Like anything else, you gotta work it. As Tony said, you cannot just list your things and expect them to just sell. They have a 45 day plan which I need to follow. I know I'd do a lot better if I could count on being able to do what I want on a daily basis, but I still get sales doing less. That's good.

Hope to see you over there. All you have to lose is $5.95 and some time.

UgaBugaBowls said...

Artfire has plenty of traffic. And the traffic there is actual potential buyers rather than just other sellers comparing your prices.

geelizzie said...

shellshock said...

Do any of you have experience with Dawanda or Folksy? I'm moving to the UK next month and want to shut down my Etsy shop and move to those venues.

I don't have direct experience with Folksy, but have looked at the site from time to time hoping that someday they would go international. It's a beautiful site to look at, not sure how well it all works or how sales are, but if I were in the UK I'd definitely try it out. They have decided to stay UK sellers only, which I kind of admire of them to do.
I think the fees for Folksy are quite similar to Etsy and it looks like the format is about the same.

Menomonie said...

Sending the emails from abuse@etsy.com was really dumb. I don't think they're capable of actually reasoning these things out.

This pattern of releasing changes and then retracting them sure is ... all sorts of things, bad things.

Cosmic Yuk said...

Ok, someone want to translate 'Truthful's' post for me? I have no idea what he/she is talking about.

As for the transaction cancellation fiasco, well, just another example of something that needs fixing but they either don't have the knowledge or the infrastructure to do it correctly.

I think buyers should be notified that a transaction has been canceled. Despite all the sellers who claim to email a non-payer multiple times and let them know that at some point the transaction will be canceled, there are probably a significant number of sellers who cancel sales in order to avoid negative feedback for one reason or another. I do think this may be a deterrent for that kind of behavior because at least the buyer has recourse to file a complaint.
And it allows them time to file a complaint with paypal or their credit card company before the time limit expires.

But once again, poorly thought out and poorly executed, the standard Etsy M.O.

Selling on Etsy has become an exercise in constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop. YOu never know what they are going to do and what it's going to screw up. Instead of sellers attending to the business of selling, they are constantly watching their backs or having to post in countless threads to show Etsy that their latest move is a major fail.

It just shouldn't be so hard. Sure, they may not be able to think of everything, but honestly, some of the things they come up with are so fraught with problems I have to wonder why not one of those people displays even a shred of common sense.

For a company that was founded on being 'outside the box', I don't think they can find an opening to even peek through, much less get 'out' of that box.

Bratty Cat said...

Yep, Etsy's plan to get ready for the IPO was to have Rob Kalin come back, act unstable and inexperienced while posting pretentious messages on twitter, while pushing the devs and designers to make a bunch of really hasty, rushed upgrades to the site - really? "Don't see why this can't be done in 3 months". Right.

Probably why the new COO came on board, because nobody wanted to invest unless they had some mature management.

About this new investment, wow, is this getting diluted. So, they already burned through a good portion of the $25m from last time, sounds like. And instead of slimming down, they've hired twice as many people? OK, good luck!

The Funny One said...

Cosmic Yuk brings up several valid points about cancelling transactions, esp. about how it shouldn't be so hard & such a time waster. Had Etsy had a decent system for it, or used the history of actual cancellations to date to make changes, then they would not have proposed such a stupid "solution".

The buyer should be notified when a seller cancels a sale, however, this should not leave the seller without the ability to immediately relist the item so someone else can buy and pay for it. It should also block all buyer feedback until the SELLER IS PAID.

Most sellers know a NPB when they see it, and if not, they usually know within 10-12 hours that the buyer is fake, or the buyer has no intention of paying.

Why shouldn't the seller have the ability to cancel a transaction and return that item to stock within 24 hours?

It's the whole Etsy perspective that stinks when they attempt to make changes ---- they never look at anything from a sellers' perspective because they never have and have no interest in finding out.

for the hell of it said...

Well, as far as the IPO, it might be a good idea to follow Fred Wilson on Twitter since he links back to his blog. He also seems to be doing major promo posts towards the IPO.

Maybe the potential investors could benefit from having more information about the site.

This topic also made it to Auction Bytes via "Auction Bytes Soundoff".

Here's the link to the actual letter:

http://letters.auctionbytes.com/cgi-bin/blog/blog.pl?/pl/2010/9/1285254523.html

I think that "we" need to take it to the streets.

Today's Auction Bytes also featured an interview with Artfire's Tony Ford.

link:

http://www.auctionbytes.com/cab/abu/y210/m09/abu0271/s03

Truthful said...

“Cosmik Yuk” do you really need the truth to be translated to you? Because if you do no wonder you have so many complaints. Reading EB is funny but if anyone is waiting around thinking that etsy cares at all about what you think then you deserve the abuse you are currently paying .20 for. I would just love to point the finger at Etsy for all the problems with it’s BLOG but that would not be the truth.

Sellers are also to blame. There are other artistic communities that make it perfectly clear that poor behavior and un-professionalism will not be tolerated and they are doing well while shitsy is a giant .20 garbage can. Answer me this, if you are the CEO of a company and you are watching sellers scam their way up a BLOG LADDER (how sad is that anyway) would you feel guilty about providing poor service to these people? I used to get loads of CON-CONVO’S sent to me about how we can cheat the system and make everybody believe we are selling product. You want to change etsy? Demand that the SOLD ITEMS link be removed! If you don’t understand why then I can’t help you.

Etsy in it’s self is a problem! Handmade artist used to be nice and collaborated with each other to sell products to the online community but Etsy has created a climate of division and complete Narcissism
within the handmade community. FUCK ETSY! And that’s the truth.

C said...

I've been reading through this blog for the last hour and I am certainly glad I did. I opened up 2 different etsy shops over the last 2 years which didn't do well and I'm glad to say this blog saved me from opening another one.

I thought maybe I just wasn't trying hard enough despite racking up hundreds of dollars on special listing and categories. I've done everything they suggested and still couldn't draw in people... I'm glad to know it just wasn't me. And I'm even happier to say I haven't paid one cent of those fees and don't plan on it. I'm going over to join Art Fire asap.

toot toot said...

I wonder what Etsy could have done with a little direction and all the money back they wasted paying those engineers man hours for completely useless shit.

I don't blame the engineers. From what I hear, they do what they are told to do, whether they think it's a crap idea or not..

Make Way for Deliciousness said...

This is off-topic, but.. I've had a seller account for a few years but have decided to sell elsewhere. I don't want my credit card information on file so I emailed the Etsy support team asking them to remove it and revert back to a buyer account. Apparently they can't remove my credit card info unless I close the account completely, which would mean losing all of my feedback. Are they allowed to do that?

Amelia said...

Amen, "for the hell of it"

Let's take it to the streets and make our voices count. Like the alexa.com reviews for etsy:

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/etsy.com#

(click on review if it doesn't show up at first) Two reviewers are starting to capture the current climate of the site. We can do better.

Let's go!

Cosmic Yuk said...

No Truthful, I think we're on the same page regarding Etsy. I just didn't understand your references to 'the blog' and crocheted dildos and celebrities and what it had to do with the transaction issue.

I let all my items expire on Etsy, I haven 't given them one red cent in almost 6 months now. I expect nothing from them, but I do get some entertainment out of watching them run around and put out fires.

And, as much as I've come to expect major fail on their part, there is a small part of me that still is surprised when it happens. I cannot fathom a reason why they don't learn from past mistakes, they've certainly made enough of them.

I figure they are either under the mass influence of delusions of grandeur or their collective IQ is so low that they are incapable of learning.

Anonymous said...

Sandahl here...

Amazing how Etsy keeps taking more and more power away from the sellers!

Hell, now, if you are not a CC you cannot even make a simple post in the forums for fear of muting.

whoismutednow said...

I'd say etsy has been quite busy. There's a new round of mutings of forum regulars.

gotta love that Rob White. He acts like he cares, but when Kalin says, mute those folks, he says yes sir Mr. Robby.

You may not like when people talk about that wire wrapper who shall remain nameless, but she got everyone of them muted and still owns the front page.

That's the facts.

fredlies said...

Off topic, but 4 forum members have been muted.

It's OK that etsy outs our personal data, just don't talk about it in the forums.

Could this be the "cutting edge" service Fred Wilson is talking about?

Anonymous said...

Sandahl here...

whoismutednow said...

I'd say etsy has been quite busy. There's a new round of mutings of forum regulars.
==============================

And a rash of warnings.

Funny thing is, I've seen most of the reasons/posts given by admin and only one was out of line. Most were nothing at all. (for mutings and warnings)

I am floored by what has taken place since 2 a.m. this morning, the names keep rolling in.

And all to protect 2 of Etsy's CCs.

Anonymous said...

Sandahl here...

Etsy can publish our private info, invade our space with our customer, etc...

Yet, all the unjustly muted/warned cannot speak up for themselves publicly without receiving even more of Etsy's biased punishments.

Etsy treats its sellers like bad 2 yr olds.

I have come to despise Etsy.

sark said...

This is off-topic, but I'd just like to throw in my $8.00 about the latest round of forum mutings...

Personally, on a "there's a human being behind every username" sort of level — I don't hate she-who-shall-not-be-named. I actually kind of like her, or at the very least empathize with her, and even lesser can gauge or at the very least interpolate her personality type.

However, if you're going to come to the forums and bitch about your treasury team being called out because etsy users have noticed a distinct favoritism of your fucking treasury team & the front page, then for fuck's sake don't be the world's biggest hypocrite and go call out all the people you disagree with on twitter. Seriously, if you're going to report people for calling out and then go call a bunch of people out - you're just a fucking hypocrite.

EB — I think it's time for an honest post about the front page favoritism, and how it'd be snappy if all the users could just stop insulting each other and pissing around this idea of photos and shoot straight to the actual cause of the problem: the employees, particularly the unnamed ones who are picking the front page treasuries.

Without irresponsible, incompetent, lazy, and downright fucktarded employees — none of this shit would be happening — right down to the mutings.

FancyPantsAndMore said...

I was truly flabbergasted today when I receive word that I was muted. Both comments given as reference were from the privacy breach fiasco and both were in response to cold, calloused remarks, pertaining to those who were stalked and very upset about the breach.

I may speak out, but I am very rarely personal. Yes, this time I was, but I was not as nasty as the ones who were baiting. I call these people "The Nasty Gang". Yet, none of them were muted.

Where was and is Etsy's compassion for those of us who were stressed and fearful after this breach. I would think some sensitivity could have gone a long way to restore our lost faith and trust in Etsy.

Rob White may well have been following orders, but I have now lost my respect for him. As the head Forum Moderator, he needs to have some backbone and stand up for what is right. And clearly, this mute was wrong.

I am not and will never be a pansy or a patsy and if I am wronged you can darn sure well believe I will stand up for myself. Etsy rules be damned.

Did they mute the one who said my avatar is asking to be stalked? No! And that is okay?? Apparently with Etsy, you can be nasty all you want, as long as you are nasty to the ones they don't like.

SusanA said...

Well FancyPants - I guess once you did a 180 and said you'd sign up for Artfire, you really scared them. I figured eventually people would start getting muted. Who better than the supporter who turns away?

BTW I have always loved your avatar, so naughty and I wish my ass looked like that :-)

The Funny One said...

We can look at mutings from 2 perspectives. One, Etsy has always acted as if their company sponsored forums section is "open" for seller discussions but can be 100% censored by Etsy depending on who's in a bad mood that day (and there can be dozens at any given moment since Admins spout off more than sellers these days).

Two, we can look at mutings as the tip of the iceberg for a huge and growing wave of seller dissastisfaction and lack of trust that needs to go off Etsy and make noise elsewhere. The more, the better.

Etsy isn't listening, they just mute. They turn it off and don't look back, and they are so good at it (they've had 6 yrs practice!)that it should be their new Front Page Motto.

Not Free To Be You and Me.

I'm a Cupcake, You are Not.

Go To Your Room, You're Grounded!

Cosmic Yuk said...

Who was muted? permanently or just for a period of time?

Fancypants, no offense, I understand you were upset, but after seeing several threads started by you and the fact that you just kept going on and on about it, I certainly felt you needed a 'time out'.

This has nothing to do with me not having compassion for yours and others situations, but honestly once it was done and over with why did you need to keep beating Etsy over the head with it? You can't unring a bell, and you can't demand compassion and understanding for your circumstances. Fun is fun. And done is done. Nobody lives forever, but we all shine on.

I believe a lot of the negativity came, not from people who didn't understand your situation, but from the excessive drama you and others used to illustrate and justify your outrage. As if showing them (Etsy and those who don't feel it's a big deal) would be the motivation for them to fix it over anyone else's concerns.

Same scenario with the SEO thing and shops losing views and sales and then the stories started popping up about not being able to feed their children, or pay the bills or whatever and pulling the sympathy card like it would prove to Etsy just how serious the issue is and suddenly open their eyes.

The thing is, I didn't see anyone who thought this was a good thing, sure they might not have seen it from your POV, but that doesn't make them unsympathetic. It appeared to me that the nastiness came after your (and others) emotional posts that seemed to make it more about you and them than anyone else that was involved.

I can't say I'm sorry they muted you, it sure looked like you needed to step back a bit to me, for your own well being. I do hope the muting is temporary, though.

FancyPantsAndMore said...

Okay, First Comic Yuk, I did NOT start several threads. I started ONE. The one the admin actually linked to in their own announcement. That is the ONLY thread I started with regard to the privacy breach. So you need to go back and look again. I rarely ever start threads for any reason. Yes, I post, and I posted in several this time.

My being upset was warranted. However, the nasty comments by others who just didn't get it, were out of line. I don't much care whether you agree or not. They were uncalled for remarks, directed toward those who were fearful.

Just because you don't experience something yourself, does not mean it is not real and it is not worthy of at least understanding and some compassion.

I will not apologize for my comments. I did however receive 2 apologies from two who were nasty. One appeared to be sincere, the other, not in the least.

You will not find a single post where I ever stated my situation was any worse than anyone's. Anyone who was upset over this breach, had a right to be.

I did receive an apology from Admin and while they apologized on one hand, the other was muting me. Rather two-faced in my opinion.

Unfortunately for those who are happy to see me muted, like Arnold, I will be back.

whoopsie, fuckme said...

Wow, you don't even have to log into EB to figure out what's fucked anymore. All you have to do is read the titles on the Announcements section.

Go Figure:

Update: New wide listing pages
September 29, 2010

Site issues: Members experiencing "Uh Ohs" and "Whoopsies".
September 30, 2010

9/30 Image issues and temporarily disabling ability to & relist items
September 30, 2010

Yeah, so you make more changes and surprise, surprise, most of your coding doesn't actually work.

I'm so fucking sick of Admin brushing off issues that hinder my ability to conduct business and directly costs me money, as "uh ohs" and "whoopsies."

This isn't kindergarten you fucking imbeciles!!! We're trying to pay our bills by running our businesses. We can't tell Bank of America that we can't pay them because our revenue stream had a "whoopsie" you fucking dopey children!!

Hire some grown-ups and stop pretending your fuck-ups are just little "uh ohs" like you spilled your chocolate milk on your cowl!!

Jethro Tull said...

Where to I go to complain about how awful the new listing page is, with the giant freaking images and the avatar linking to my ugly ass profile page?

Sara said...

hi, who's muted besides knot and fancy?

Melany said...

re:whoopsie, fuckme

I really, really hate Etsy's little kid language. "Members experiencing "Uh Ohs" and "Whoopsies". " Please.

It just rubs me the wrong way. Other sites like Twitter, Flickr, startups etc. have the capability of being fresh and casual without sounding like jerkoffs, but Etsy has never, ever been able to pull it off.

'hiccups'? Seeing their cutesy crap when the site is screwing up just pisses you off more.

Makes sense that 'Etsy' has uh-ohs and whoopsies, though, considering that they basically have the emotional maturity of toddlers.

etsybitesme said...

i just want to know why the new featured seller only has 24 sales. nobody's asked me to be a featured seller and i've been with etsy a year and a half & have almost 450 sales.

i'm sorry, but that bites.

Aunt Onery said...

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6646872

Check out this choice forum thread from a pissed off buyer. If blehsty could get it through their cement heads how much of a fucked up shopping experience they've created.....oh well, the smart buyers and sellers are heading for more pleasant realities in droves now. 'bout time.

Anonymous said...

I am still stunned by this little gem and it has been over a month! Does etsy even have a clue how stupid this is in the long run.

I have seen shops with more neg. feedback, by some pretty unreasonable customers. Feedback, that has been given in retaliation to a canceled order, due to this foolish letter. Customers are FULLY protected by paypal and sadly the are FULLY protected by etsy. The idea that now, they get 48 house to leave feedback on a canceled sale is shocking. If I have refunded a customers $ (for what ever reason), then ‘lucky them’. They really should not have a further forum to complain, because they do!

At the very least, let shops BLOCK BUYERS. It won’t solve everything, but it does stop that person, right then.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

I hope that this doesn’t fall to the side in the forums, because this is just another long, long and I mean LONG line of crappy ideas that slap shops in the face. I am on the artfire train and I hate etsy more each day! I pay fees over $300 each month to etsy and all I get in return are some fantastic etsy staffers playing business with my money!!