Tuesday, September 21, 2010

In support of even more fallen sellers

SurrenderDorothy was shut down today, but it's less than surprising that it comes the day AFTER Etsy's major privacy breech/fuck up where many a harsh word was spoken at them and made them cry into communal salads making their gluten free organic vegan garlic croutons soggy. Granted, some words were said at etsy by our dear seller friend, who has been a constant voice of reality and dissent, in those threads but they deserved every one of them.

But today as if on cue, she gets her shop closed for a minor non-delivery miscommunication from three weeks ago with a buyer that has since been resolved? Oh why is this fucking song so familiar? Speak out on their fuck ups and someone is paying dearly.

Surrender Dorothy, you are in our thoughts and we have only two more words:


If you or some other seller you know were shutdown today without cause, or notice, or clue, let us know! (Also let us know if you spoke out in the forums over the privacy breech!)

EDIT: Wednesday She got her shop turned back on. I haven't heard any word yet on if she got any explanation or apology, but we know how these things work don't we?

100 Comments:

eclipse said...

What did SD say about the privacy thing? Etsy is so transparent, they don't even wait a reasonable amount of time before executing their revenge-bans. If they had waited a week or two this would be so much more plausible, but doing it today it's like they don't even bother to hide the shenanigans and spite. They WANT people to know this is a punitive ban for speaking out in the forums. They want people to understand the cause and effect link. How else would it instill fear?

sark said...

Holy shit? Surrender Dorothy? I admit, I always kind of thought she was slightly prone to hysterics or hyperbole, but she has also always been polite and businessy. She's not some asshole who swears like a sailor (points to self)...

Seriously, Surrender Dorothy is who they go after for blood for their OWN FUCK UP? Are you shitting me?
That's like raping a librarian.

What the fuck etsy? Why do you treat your customers like shit?

Does she have an Artifre? If she does, link the fuck out of it in your post.

SusanA said...

Surrender Dorothy? Yes she could be little bossy but she was always knowledgeable and businesslike.

Wy pick on someone who had been such a great seller after so long. I'm glad her Artfire shop is well stocked- 85 pages worth.

Artfire store is http://www.artfire.com/users/SurrenderDorothy she isn't in the forums as much on af but maybe she will be now

Glasstastic Treasures said...

SurrenderDorothy does have an artfire shop, luckily: http://www.artfire.com/users/SurrenderDorothy

I've closed my etsy shop in protest, once again. Really not sure why I went back, I guess I'm a glutton for punishment! gah!!

Mama V said...

I saw her outcry over the privacy breach. She was vocal, but it was not unwarranted. Her shop removal is disturbing and pathetic.

Robbiesucks said...

OMG!

I think the board told Robbie to sacrifice someone visible.

How 1984 is this?

So sorry, SD.

for the hell of it said...

Can anyone leave a link to the thread?

SurrenderDorothy said...

Hiya guys.

I've looked at a Non-delivery warning posted at log-in time every morning in my SurrenderDorothy shop for weeks now and I've settled all three of them weeks ago; (two of them to one customer who's orders were lost in the mail and her money was refunded and one to a customer who's order was shipped to the wrong address and returned to me and reshipped back to her again.)

I've already settled all this stuff weeks ago with my customers, so there's NO pending issue going on with ANY of them.

(to be continued)

SurrenderDorothy said...

I've contacted Etsy Abuse a dozen times about removing these stupid non-delivery notices from my shop and every morning the non delivery notices are still posted when I log into Etsy under My Surrender Dorothy account.

Nobody at Etsy seems to be able to remove them? WHY? WTF? I dunno.

So then last night my shop mysteriously closes last night at 6:30 without warning (and the E crew is gone for the day.) I'm out of my mind as this IS my G-ddamned dayjob and so franticly contact Abuse and all the other Etsy venues under my other 2 accounts, because when they shut you down, you don't have an account and thusly you have no way to contact anyone at Etsy... What awesome master-planning.

to be continued...

SurrenderDorothy said...

Nobody replies to my messages and of course they have those famous cute fake play phonebooths, but no f***ing functioning telephones, so I post in the forums under my other two Etsy shop names begging for help and both accounts are promptly forum muted and the threads are locked for Calling out...?
Calling out myself for asking for help? Help me with this stupid logic.

I then write a pleading convo to HeyMichelle first and she doesn't reply, so I contact Rob White and Knickey and neither one can help me but direct me to contact Abuse (who is unavailable) and they tell me that they are both very sorry. (Yup, me too.)

What a stupid way to run a business.

In the meantime I've got a gigantic shop with about 1600 listings that nobody can see and tons of freaked out customers who think I've pulled out and left town without notice holding their money and their goods hostage. AND I can't sell anything in my shop that costs me about 150 to 200 bucks every month in freaking commissions and listing fees just to run.
Jesus wept.


to be continued...

SurrenderDorothy said...

In the meantime I've got a gigantic shop with about 1600 listings that nobody can see and tons of freaked out customers who think I've pulled out and left town without notice holding their money and their goods hostage. AND I can't sell anything in my shop that costs me about 150 to 200 bucks every month in freaking commissions and listing fees just to run.
Jesus wept.

Right now I could just scream or cry or stomp on cute tiny animals... I only wish my AF shop did as well as SD on Etsy... because I'd already be gone.

Yes I'm outspoken in the forums. Yes I am and maybe I shouldn't be and this is what this bullshit is really all about. I'd be willing to bet that it is. I've been naughty and they've slapped me in the time-out corner to think about talking back. Assholes.

This is going to be a very loooong day I think.

Thank you all for your kind words and lovely letters of support though this ugly ordeal. I'm so very grateful to you all for your friendship.

Much love,
Veronica/ HerRoyalMajestyBags/IkarosFalls/ SurrenderDorothy

NeverAgain said...

Meanwhile, sellers I have reported umpteen times for incorrect, blatant tag-stuffing, resellers, not to mention the many whose negative feedback outweigh their positive due to non-deliveries...they get to continue on their merry little way.

Every time Etsy fucks up in a major way, or does something insulting to their customers (plush phonebooths after implying that room was marked for desperately needed customer service lines), they sit back and watch. Then they pick out a few sellers who speak out and make an "example" out of them. SO transparent.
I wish everyone had the means to get the hell away from there. It really saddens me that Etsy can act however they please because there will always be $$ coming in from newbies along with people who can't afford to leave right now.

SurrenderDorothy said...

Here are the three threads that were ever-so-swiftly closed.

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6633725
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6633759
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6633745

friend of dorothy said...

Veronica, it does sound like they may let you back in the playground, after you've been punished and shown sufficient remorse. I hope it works out--there'd be a big void at Etsy without you. But what a bitch!

The Stubborn One said...

Veronica, you are not alone. I know that at least a few of the bitches have been right where you are right now, myself included. So we know what you're going through and it is terribly unfair and infuriating. If you want to talk or vent, feel free to email me directly.

The Funny One said...

The sad story is that more vindictive closures are in the pipeline, don't we know it!

This has got to bother more than a few Etsy sellers - that the more jerks Etsy hires, the more unprofessional it gets. Just read the infantile Admin posts, they are getting worse, not better.

This is a multi-millions a month biz with overpaid employees who vent their personal crap on sellers. It taints the whole gimmick. In Etsy-speak, how icky can you get??

The Stubborn One said...

Funny, truer words were never spoken.

for the hell of it said...

You might want to consider certified mail with signiture to help you create documentation.

I think that Auction Bytes should be written in the sound off/ letters to editer section and EVERYONE really needs to begin following fred Wilson on Twitter right back to his blog to do what can be done to derail the IPO.

There's a link at the bottom of his blog for his private email at Union Square. AND for whomever does write, try to keep the emotions neutral and give measurable numbers whenever possible.

Etsy treats their customers like shit because THEY have no self esteem. Look at the about us page. These people got beat up when they were kids.

mariam said...

Etsy's board, including Fred Wilson are very smart multi millionaires. Why else do you think they'd have a dumb ass like Rob Kalin return to the helm? They tell him what to do.

Think about it. Removing SD because she is vocal is part of the plan. Today 400 newbies will sign up and hand over their money.

Etsy goes public and they get richer. You know resellers are soooo much easier to work with than those pesky handmade and vintage folks.

Truthful said...

Oh No… did the youtube of hand made fuck up again. LMAO this is funny. What is not funny is the holiday season which will be a mess thanks to needless/ruthless competition over handmade product and etsy’s retarded need to keep to a failing formula. When real artist became tired of YOUTUBE they ran over to vimeo and blip tv when no one else was looking and now these channels and their artist are gaining financing and respect and YOUTUBE has become nothing but a fart joke and everyone is jumping ship.

The promise of easy money with little work is what keeps etsy and their never ending string of new sellers in business. Opening your own web store is so cheap and easy these days the only reason why people don’t want to get one is because they don’t want to pay the cost of promotion and hard work. If you are a customer and you buy something from a PROFILE on etsy and you get scammed don’t cry about it. A good business has their own website and their own customer service to help with customer complaints. Etsy won’t even let sellers link to their own customer service to help manage customer related issues. Just leave etsy and work hard to build a REAL company. A PROFILE on a lame ass website is not a company!

SSDD said...

The same thing happened to me. I emailed Rokali and got apologies from HeyM and was back up in no time.


I didn't grovel, either, I just make my case. Being vocal in the forums is for muting, not for banishment. The closer your statements in the forum get to the truth, the better chance that They will retaliate. What Colbert calls "truthiness"== that's the only flavor of truth the forum mods can handle.

SurrenderDorothy said...

I was one of the sellers who's full name was exposed in the Treasuries and yes... I've got a few people out there that I'd rather not reconnect with ever again. My full name is posted nowhere on cyperworld for a damned good reason.

nogo said...

But see, WHY can they close your shop & mute you after business hours, but not reply to your messages asking for an explanation?

You KNOW somebody was monitoring all of this. So shady.

Etsy has been flipping out lately.

-Site outages in the past month
-Sales tax fiasco
-Tons of FP thread closings & disgruntlement
-The site breach
- needless open date/join date change

I'm missing something but its hard to keep track of all their shenanigans

They want you to grovel. I hope you don't. Take your successful business & all your customers & work it all on Artfire. Etsy doesn't deserve you .

The cupcakes & their "I love etsy" thread telling people to stop the negativity is ridiculous. SD you are not the first seller this has happened to & not the last.

knot said...

I don't know what to say. Poor show Etsy.

SurrenderDorothy said...

The lack of Etsy telephone support is the worst kick in the ass of all of this.

I feel like a lost coathanger floating around suspended in deep space.

for the hell of it said...

I believe that Kalin was successful in getting these people to buy in and now that the money is down the VC peeps are valiently trying to make their money work.

Remember, Kalin scammed school ID for NYU because HE didn't have the confidence to get in on his own merits. He's a scammer. nothing more.

I do, though also believe that the now Etsy legal manufacturers were probably Breyers idea and that Etsy peeps screwed up how it was handled.

SurrenderDorothy said...

All personal politic aside.... I just want my shop back up and running again.

The Funny One said...

What we need now is a list of sellers who left and are leaving Etsy and why. I'd love to see it in print. With details!

The VC behind the curtain is just as out-of-sinc as the Etsy CEO, which is why they reinforce each other. It's a lost cause. As long as Etsy is making money off of a dubious fee-structure for nothing in return, these lousy non-biz practices will continue. When they fool enough US sellers, they'll just mine the rest of the world.

They'll fail, but they sure will be 125 very rich people who may do this all over again with another pie in the sky plan to skim off the big bucks by nickle and diming their gullible audience.

Goat said...

Ah, Etsy support...

Let me tell you the story of my last go round with Jim at Etsy Support. it was during one of the later fiascos, something with Kalin.

Out of nowhere I get muted for a month plus I get this missive from Jim telling me he has complaints from 'several sellers' that I have been sending abusive convos and spamming.

Now, I've never even received an abusive, nasty convo or even been spammed. Much less sent any out.

When I ask Jim who complained it's "confidential" when I ask him what the specifics were it's "confidential'.

And when I ask him how MANY is several, is it seven, nine, what? You guessed it, that's "confidential."

Now both my bullshit Rob WHite email and Jim's WTF that was arrived on (ready?) Easter Sunday and within seconds of each other.

Easter Sunday, dude.

The message was very clear and interestingly enough not fifteen minutes after my muting his Royal Skeeviness Rokali hits the forums for the usual blah blah blah and the fawning begins.

Etsy can and will pull your shop, mute you , suspend your convos, when they feel like it.

I think the only reason no one else has been shut down, yet, is because they need to find some random bullshit reason, even if it is their own fuck up.

So I can get muted for a non mutable post and then told this bizarre concocted "confidential" story about harassing and spamming people on an Easter Sunday within three minutes of each other, but SD can't get an answer during a business day.

We aren't the first, won't be the last. No way I was gonna keep building up a business there.

Fool me once, you're an asshole.

SurrenderDorothy said...

It's almost 11:00 on the East Coast and still NO word.

The Stubborn One said...

Hate to say it, but you might be down for a few days, SD. Maybe even through the weekend. Just be sure you're prepared for that.

California Girl said...

Etsy does not follow its own TOU. Blatant resellers thrive and are promoted on Storque and the front page. The front page shows the same items from the same sellers every day. Some of the favorites get to promote their off site links with no penalty. There is a definite "playing favorites" vibe to the whole site. Copyright violations, theft of images/intellectual property is given the brush off - something that is taken seriously in the "real" world of business. Buyers are purchasing things like wedding dresses that are not handmade but promoted as such (which is false advertising and against the law in most places).
Yet someone like SurrendrDorothy, who very much wants to see Etsy thrive as what is alleged to be (handmade, vintage and supplies), gets booted off at a whim then ignored.
Etsy is all about situational ethics. Long live Artfire!

AtomicKitty said...

They closed me down last month, over the most rediclious thing! i had cancelled a sale then refunded the customer, i had no idea you could not do that! And when i e-mailed to ask why they said that i violated their policies and i was BANNED FROM THERE FOR LIFE! it has been just upsetting beyond belief..but what can you do, they are unreasonable and dont give anyone appeal processes!

The Stubborn One said...

You have got to be shitting me, AtomicKitty. I did that quite a few times--because of downright asshole buyers or buyers that changed their mind minutes after sending payment. How is that against the TOUS? I smell bullfuckingshit, because when I cancelled the sales & requested refunded fees, I even added that I REFUNDED THE BUYER.

AtomicKitty said...

they told me you had to REFUND first then cancel! I was just stunned that they could do this, i had over 600 sales and 100% feedback! and poof i was gone! They would not even listen to my appeals ect! It just amazes me that some dumb fuck in customer service can make those decisions! I really hope that they re-activate SD's account!

The Hippie Chick Boutique said...

One of my teammates was banned from the forum for 7 days for calling admin F*cking Twats. Yes. As of now they've only suspended forum rights and her shop(s) are still open. But wth dude seriously? you're gonna wait 3 days to punish her? Get off your high horse etsy.

uncommonvintage said...

This sucks and I'm sorry to hear it, SD. Especially since you asked them countless times about the non-delivery message. Hopefully you'll be up and running soon and get an apology, as well.

Of course, when you open back up, hang on to your fucking hat cause Etsy has just figured out a better way to screw us all with their new transaction cancellation form.

I've been screaming all morning in the forums, along with lots of other people so, I guess we should get prepared for the ax to fall on our shops too.

Here's my protest treasury:
http://www.etsy.com/treasury/4c9a1e800e488eeff58fc291/cancel-a-sale-wreck-your-feedback#4c9a1ede94f06d9190afc7ff

sark said...

Well, congratulations, SurrenderDorothy — I retract my "she doesn't swear" comment — ha!

I think I've almost been cupcaked into feeling like an asshole about the swearing thing. Eh, no more...

It's 30 minutes after noon and I just visited
http://www.etsy.com/shop/SurrenderDorothy
while there are no items, your shop seems to technically be back.

What a bunch of total twats the etsy staff are, from top to bottom.

Best of luck to you on Artfire
: )

SurrenderDorothy said...

My shop is back... but there's nothing in it.
*headdesk*

Robin said...

I am lucky I wasn't shut down, screwed up recently (lost a photo that was bought).

What's happened to Veronica is enough to make me think twice about the forums....and you notice I am not using my etsy name here????

SurrenderDorothy said...

There. It's all back again. What a horror.

Lauren said...

Honestly, I forgave Etsy's mistake as soon as I figured out it happened. People make mistakes, totally understandable... but the fact that unless you were on the forums you wouldn't even know your name had been revealed until 18 (or more) hours later? Inexcusable! Anyone who had and alert out for anyone's name could have gotten to their house and killed them in that time.

I was really loud on the forums, too... but I guess a new member without much of a rep yet (as opposed to a widely-loved member like SD) wouldn't have attracted Etsy's attention as much.

Love this blog, can't believe I didn't find it sooner. I'll add you to my blogroll in a sec (http://www.orangeraspberrylemonade.com)

Evermore Organics said...

I think we should all listen to "truthful" here about having a real website and not relying on just a profile on some dinky website. And yes, Etsy is dinky and has proved themselves to be as such. Without their financial backing they'd just be some hipsters running around brooklyn taking personal problems out on anyone who dares to join their little Etsy club. You're never going to get anywhere on Etsy because they don't play by the rules. Its a wild goose chase and a popularity contest; its not "business".

PetitPoulailler said...

So glad to see your shop up and running again, SD ♥

I really thought we'd graduated from high school. Quite a long time ago, actually.

We gotta break those Etsy chains, dear.

BTW, I see below that 'fisbal' is my word verification. That is my new Etsy Curse Word in honor of Veronica xo K

SurrenderDorothy said...

Thanks so much for coming to my rescue! It's lonely out in space.
Veronica

friend of dorothy said...

She's back! All 1,593 gorgeous items. Hope she has record sales today!

Libby at Picklevalentine said...

Yay!! Veronica is back. ♥

I've always been outspoken. I complained about the breach last night. But I packed up my shop and closed it earlier this month. I am now happily at AF, as everyone probably knows.

Anyway, I got to thinking (not a good thing) and here is what I posted last night. "What frightens me about this breach are two things. One is that it appears the engineers have no project manager and no testing protocol. Something is always going wrong because changes are put through live without checking to see what the changes will affect. Because of this, Etsy has constant glitches. It makes being a seller very difficult and even chancy. Before I left, I sometimes had to start the same listing over 3 or 4 times. The sales tax thing was the final straw. I have never seen such a lax programming staff. I worked in the insurance industry for years and we had to do constant programming changes. Never did these kind of things happen. Everything was completely tested before it was rolled out.

And because we report glitches in the forums, all the problems get picked up by search engines. Where I'm going with this is that hackers and cyber-criminals are looking for sites with "shaky" platforms. Etsy is a perfect target. If I were one of those people, I'd be over here perusing the site for security holes and hoping to get user information. That's what frightens me most. I am even worried about buying here now." (Snip)

My bottom line is that Etsy looks like one big shaky site that is wide open for a major security breach. If they don't tighten it up immediately, chances are that something drastic will happen to everyones' financial info. And because of insecurity, they stand to lose as many buyers as they have lost sellers.

I'll let you know if I get shut down or muted. I will let EVERYONE know.

Glib Sailor Boy said...

Ha. Someone should go link to this on that Fred Wilson's blog, ask him to explain if this is an example Etsy's "cutting edge customer service".

That phrase is so funny. They barely have customer service at all. What the fuck is so cutting edge about emailing someone? Or even better, not even emailing someone? Next we'll hear Convos are the new gmail killer because someone finally made fucking multiple tags work right.

Holy shit, there are groups of Asian people selling $4 headphones on eBay that have better customer service than Etsy, and he has the bizarre fantasy of calling it 'cutting edge'. That guy must be able to afford some really killer weed.

SurrenderDorothy said...

Etsy employs 125 people.

Why don't they have phones?

PaintedBullShop.com said...

Geez, So sorry Surrender Dorothy....my thoughts are going out to you...

My only suggestion to everyone is Pappashop.com (or any other web host) cause that seems to be the best way to go....fuck Etsy and all those other venues. Just go out on your own.
-PaintedBull

donotlikebigbrother said...

Everytime I hear about a shop being closed for NO FUCKING REASON I go absolutely insane. I cannot wait for the day that I can exist on my own website or artfire (had my very first sale there yesterday!!)
Their rules are so FUCKING obscure and suject to THEIR WHIMS, who would ever know if you violated something? As if they don't violate things every single day? Icluding our private information. It's truly like Big Brother. Being shut down for no reason = being sent to prison for a crime you didn't commit.

Surrender Dorothy - I remember the days when we used to have FUN in the forums. By the Way, how is George? xoxoxo

Slap-o-Matic said...

for the hell of it said...
Look at the about us page. These people got beat up when they were kids.
---------------
Not nearly enough.

Lauren said...

WB, SD! I was flabbergasted when I heard what happened... I remember saying something to the effect of "Would you live in a country where you weren't allowed to have opinions and openly state them?" can't find the thread now... but it was there, lol.

I think this, on top of everything else, is what made me finally look at AF more closely... and the difference so far is shocking.

So many unheard of things... like being able to post in the forums without being absolutely certain that someone would twist your words and openly insult you... or being able to quote people, get notified when there's a reply on a thread, use smilies... TBH, I haven't even really looked at the shop setup yet, I'm too busy being shocked by the forums! (but I hear there's coupons? Is that legal? lol)

California Girl said...

Glad you're back. It would be great if everyone picked an item or two from Veronica's shops (artfire or etsy) and at least tweeted them. Or if you make a treasury, include her.
There is no "cutting edge" anything at Etsy. Not customer service, not anything.
The forum cupcakes can eat a big bag of it.

Molly Phoenix said...

We could organize an Etsy blackout! no listings and no renewals for one full day. That would hit em in the taint. Etsy goes down, sellers can't list, buyers can't buy and all I hear is cut them some slack in the forums...well how bout they feel the pain where it hurts the most? Organic croutons are expensive.

It will be like "A Day Without A Mexican" only different...

Also, Artfire better hold onto their hats if there is a mass exodus! I think they timed that 20,000 shops/ $5.95 a month promo perfectly...maybe too perfectly!

les68 said...

I left Etsy about 8 months ago but still check up to see if the same stuff is going on...and I am so sorry to see that it is. I loved the Etsy experience (when it worked) and the sellers and hated having to accept what I know is the hard truth:

--Etsy is run by amateurs;

--Nobody's minding the store when it comes to seller's needs;

--The mission has nothing to do with your (the seller's) success;

and finally,

--that the major decision makers should have spent some time waiting tables or working retail before the put their wet little ears into running a company...

because they don't know sh*t about really running a good, solid, honorable business. It's a joke and an insult to the many awesome hard-working sellers.

This is not business school, and this is not programming school. But it's treated like one, and honest sellers are pretty much unwitting lab rats while Etsy high-fives all their "handmade" friends who sell thousands of items from overseas.

ScrapMetal said...

What really stinks is that so many resellers are on Etsy happily continuing their many sales and they are still up despite flagging. At the CallOut blog there are new posts daily at the reseller junk shops, yet so so many of them are still up and running! It is clear Etsy admin just wants a "look," and doesn't really care about whether something is handmade or not. I find it very hypocritical that admin shuts shops down for forum/other issues but keeps flagrant resellers open.

Sweet Anne said...

Can anyone link to the first thread that started it all?

I'm a new EB reader, but will read regularly from now on.

SD is my teammate on the Vintage Market team, and has contributed a lot to that team AND Etsy.

I'm fairly new to Etsy (4 months), but I feel like there's a lot going on I don't know about, and I want to keep myself informed about all the shit that goes on in the background.

The Sneaky One said...

Okay guys.. We shouldn't have to say it, but we are.

No personal attacks. She's not my favorite seller either, but no personal attacks. Keep it clean and on Etsy or Etsy Admin.

DancingWindDesigns said...

This is beyond absurd. I am so sick of their stupid,yuppie crap. Reminds me of a little dictatorship run by people with small minds and big guns-only in this case-access to the etsy control board. I am currently taking steroids for a torn arm muscle/ligament/tendon (they haven't decided yet)so I figured I would take advantage of this mild case of roid rage I have and made this blog post about etsy.
http://dancingwinddesigns.blogspot.com/2010/09/hey-etsy.html
(Mods, feel free to delete the blog link and reference if you like. I sure don't want to be considered to be spamming or anything. I was just mad as hell when I heard about what happened to Victoria.)

HI Etsy - You Are All Incompetent said...

I can't believe this still goes on.

I'm about ready to sign up for Artfire, even though I don't even have a SHOP anymore just to support someone with the best chance of taking business from Etsy. Hate those twats.

Lauren said...

I've been running around AF all day... it is an absolutely wonderful site! I can't believe I didn't do this sooner. I might shut down my Etsy site entirely, except to buy from some of the people I've already bought from (unless they're also on AF).

Life During Wartime said...

Too bad Etsy doesn't accord the same benefit of the doubt policy they use with resellers to professional, successful, legitimate, shops like SD.

I am reminded of HeyMichelle's forum post in the thread Your feedback on alleged resellers & how we're looking to improve dated July 21 of this year.

From HeyMichelle's post:

"We realize that when we close a shop, we are seriously affecting the livelihood of the seller. We want to feel really good that when we are closing a shop, we are doing so correctly."

That's the policy for dealing with shops flagged as resellers. Lucky them.

Amber said...

Well, you won't see me buying ANYTHING from Etsy ever again. I'm all or supporting handmade artists & whatnot, but Etsy will not get a red cent from me. I've gone out of my way to contact suppliers via email & ArtFire just so I don't ever have to give any of my money to those scam artists again. Humph.

Yeah. Proud "rumball" over here. Never looking back.

SusanA said...

I as time4coffee, was shut down last December. I started selling on Arfire on put my shop on vacation. I had a link to my artfire shop, which I removed in September when they pointed it out.
December came and my store was shut down out of the blue- the reason give was having a link in my store that I wouldn't remove.
I was always opinionated in the forums and have a feeling this was connected. They closed 3 buyers accounts opened after that- probably because I was still yakking.
I opened another account just to buy make-up from a particualr seller but I don't post anything so I have been left alone.
Veronica - I like outspoken, Etsy doesn't.

HerRoyalMajestyBags said...

Oh! I forgot this part. Etsy sent me notification that my SurrenderDorothy Shop was one of those special shops who had been viewed with the 35 minutes of seller's full names were on public display in the treasury...

and I'm one of those people trying my best to stay below the radar because I have a lunatic in my past. Smooooooth move Etsy.

Moments later I got a second email stating that my SD shop had just been vaporized. Excellent.

DancingWindDesigns said...

Well, well. I will at least give HeyMichele credit for not plagerizing Tony from AF word for word. He said pretty much the same thing several months back, when people were talking about the reseller issue. They won't mess with a resellers livliehood, but they damn sure will mess with regular sellers-just ask Veronica and countless others.

Anonymous said...

Also, Artfire better hold onto their hats if there is a mass exodus! I think they timed that 20,000 shops/ $5.95 a month promo perfectly...maybe too perfectly!

----------------------

The $5.95 is ON, they're not going to wait to hit 20,000. If you sign up by 10/1 you are in at that rate.

Stifler's Mom

sara said...

Anybody need a Job?

http://hire.jobvite.com/Jobvite/Jobs.aspx?m=nBxdAfwF

SusanA said...

Looking at the job description they have make me want to gag. Everyone wants a detailed description of what inspires you about Etsy. No wonder their softeware engineers are crap, they only want those who inspired(misty clouds and rainbow).

Most software engineers probably never heard of Etsy. If they really want to attract talented people, put the job where that people are and forget the essay. NYC is full of out of work techies, they can have their pick if they wanted it.

Lauren said...

I'm surprised they have so many spots open... I wonder how many of those opened up recently. Too bad there are no dates attached. Would be interesting to know if their employees get the same respect their customers do.

The Funny One said...

hahahahahahahaha - the Etsy job ad for the Designer:
"Beautiful, young website that gets lots of attention but needs a special companion to fill a void. Seeking LTR with talented, self-motivated designer. We can be good friends (with benefits)."

I guess the ol' Adult Services classifieds at Craigslist found a new home!!!!!!!!

Etsy gets exactly what they ask for, no wonder it's a kindergarten on steroids.

tired etsian said...

Oh God. That is one of the worst ads I have seen for a job. They should have just said, we don't care what your resume looks like, but if you are cute, under 26 and have cut on a computer at some point in your life you have a good shot at being hired.

What exactly is the job for? No real information about what types of design software they should be familiar with other then not caring for photoshop. Be comfortable with a command line? Why, what do you want the person to be doing? Are you going to let the web designer right code for checkout?

I'm more concerned though about the position for a Manager of Payment Fraud Systems. I really hope that isn't related to them working on an In House Payment System. With everything they've been doing lately, do not trust them one bit to handle my money.

I also notice several jobs for project managers. Shouldn't they already have project managers?

Looking at their help wanted ads is scary and again just how many freaking engineers do they need. They are not Google for cripes sake.

Virginia said...

@ The Funny One - you want a list of people who have left.

Add me.

Want to know why?

Visit my the Etsy fail tag group on my blog:

http://lunasbaublebilities.blogspot.com/search/label/Etsy%20Fail

I'd be happy to provide more information about my stats, specific links to unprofessional admin responses in threads that ticked me off or even write a "why I Left" testimonial.

I hope Surrender Dorothy's good Karma swings back around to give her a big life this month. She deserves it for her bold, well spoken lobbying for seller protection and customer service over the years. Thank you, Veronica!

mariam said...

@goat Jim is Daniellexo's husband. Need I say more.


I can understand not talking about other sellers, put please address the front page favoritism issue.

A star that will not be named was alread on the front page two times this morning, closing in on 300 times for the year. Please!

what the heck said...

On those job ads...

Not only does the payment fraud position bother me, but some of the others do as well. Like why are they looking for more social media people to interact with their 'very passionate members' and keep the current staff 'in tune'? And I don't understand the Product Managers position?

Did I miss when they opened and office in San Fran?

HerRoyalMajestyBags said...

Something good came of this though.... I'm now an official Artfire Free Member For Life!
Cool Beans!

Veronica
SD/ HRMB/IF

Anne said...

Been following this with interest and trying to keep quiet, but:

Veronica, I'm glad it got ironed out and sorry that you had to go through it.

Everybody, I just got an email from Artfire stating that the $5.95 deal is now slated to move forward on October 1.

Anybody, just a vagrant question: Has anyone ever lawyered-up? Just wondering idly.

Zombie Dog said...

Yeah, it's nice that they're pushing ahead with the payment system. Sorry, you absolute morons can't even get a shopping cart right.

Also, so many of those job openings have been around for a while... perhaps they're hiring multiples for each position? Or maybe people seeking careers evaluate Etsy and wonder if they can really take the company seriously in the long term.

Their main recruiter appears to be a 25 year old kid with no actual experience, so... yeah. The endless string up fuck ups this year tells us a whole lot about their actual hiring and staffing stuation ('best talent in NYC', my ass).

Bye Etsy Kiddos said...

Heads up on a brand new snafoo at etsy today...it screwed up seller's shops in a big way...after forum outrage, guess what, they rolled it back so they could work out the bugs.

Seriously dudes at etsy...there's nothing left to say, you're just sooo not worth our time anymore.

Let the mass exodus begin/continue.

Hello Artfire.

Sara said...

Thank goodness everybody still has an appetite!!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/etsylabs/

The Dangerous Mezzo said...

Fuck, I hate Etsy. I stop in every now and then just to remind myself how fucked up they all are. Nothing has changed for the better.

You can add me to the list of people who left some time ago, my darling Bitches.

Your Majesty, I'm very glad they sorted things out, eventually. I'm even happier that ArtFire made you a free life member :)

Zippy Jane said...

It would be pretty cool if they had an IPO... you could make a fortune short-selling their stock after the initial rise.

It would be nice to see that leprechaun piece of shit have to answer to stockholders, too.

Lauren said...

I started a post on Etsy yesterday, linking to one of Tony's announcement about his goals for AF and some of Etsy's posts about their goals (though I couldn't find any after 2008). I was trying really hard to be neutral and just get people to share their experiences on the two and stay factual so that those who are trying to figure out if they should try AF or not. For the most part, I thought I had succeeded.

20-something pages in, it gets closed because apparently we're allowed to discuss other venues (what I was trying to do) but we're not allowed promoting other venues (I think there was one joke somewhere that might have alluded to that).

ByNanasHands said...

In the light of day the latest security breach was way worse than I had believed it to be. The thought of my info being put out there for all to grab was my "last straw". I own my dot com and it has been pointing to Etsy for years...it now is pointing to my new ArtFire store. I will be slowly phasing out all my inventory on Etsy through the holidays...on January 1 I pull the plug...I'm done...I was already screwed this week by 1000 Markets by being "sold" off to "BozoBay" (Bonanza) and the latest Etsy fiasco just turned my stomach...so, feel free to add me to the "let me the hell out of here" group.

HerRoyalMajestyBags said...

Hi guys!
Thanks so much to all of you who contacted me and spoke for me when I could not.
Man... my sudden shop closure was terrifying and it came as a total surprise. One minute I was there and the next minute my ENTIRE shop was gone and there was no way to contact someone to help me fix it. Stupid Etsy has no phones for some reason.
Lots of folks read about my little saga here in the EtsyBitch blog.
Sorry guys but you just know it's going to be a seriously surreal kind of a day when your shop is front page news here.
I'm just glad it's over... I'm still in shock though. I also know that a lot of my opinions and commentaries have to chap a whole lot of asses over there at Etsy cupcake HQ. I'm also dead certain that NO hearts would be broken in Brooklyn if I decided to close my shops and move to another venue in some distant galaxy far far away.

Because of my shops out of nowhere closure, lots of Etsy sellers are now very much aware that if this kind of ruthless, unethical, underhanded and sloppy bullshit can happen to someone like me, it can also happen to anyone else who sells there and that's some really scary shit to wrap one's head around.
If anything at all good came of this at all, it's the sobering heads-up wake up call for lots of starry-eyed Etsy sellers that perhaps putting all one's eggs in one basket isn't the best business decision to make.
I'm a well known and long standing Etsy seller and that alone was the element instrumental in having my shop put back on the map pretty quickly. My shop closure was resolved in about 20 hours because a lot of lovely outraged people bitched loudly and wrote demanding convos and emails on my behalf; a lesser known seller might still be lost in space right now. That's just a horrible thing to know.

Needless to say, that if I didn't have trust issues with Etsy before, I certainly have them now.

My problem is I do really well there considering how many vintage sellers there are on Etsy and pulling out my shops as a hissy-fit protest statement just to be "right" would be a really stupid move for me. Sadly, this is my freaking day-job, damnitall.
I do manage to sell some stuff on AF, but my numbers there don't read like my shop numbers on Etsy. I sell more there each month than I have the entire 2 1/2 years I've been on AF combined and so until something majorly different happens over there, I'm staying with Etsy. I HAVE to.

I hate knowing that E continues to be staffed by clueless 20 year old hipster buffoons and that year after year, nothing ever seems to change. That's just so very very discouraging and scary. I joined at the end of 07 as HRMB and we sellers are still begging for the same basic tools now we were begging for back then. In the meantime back at the Cupcake 'N KoolAide Ranch, I'm still selling my stuff and making a half decent living as long as I'm allowed to keep my shop open; Something which, frankly I have my doubts about these past few days.

Right now I'm still a deer frozen in the headlights of an oncoming 18 wheeler bearing down on me at 85 MPH with it's fucking airhorns blasting at me. I have no clue what to do except for to keep doing what I've been doing, staying below the radar (which is very hard for me to do) and figuring it out as I go... or not.

Got any suggestions? I'd love to hear them.

Thanks for the good lovin'!

Xoxoxo,

Veronica

HerRoyalMajestyBags said...

Okay... I just did some thinking about this and now I'm thinking that I'm about 50 percent to blame for this... When I answered back to Etsy's non-delivery reports from my SD shop, I used my HRMB email address and it confused them.

Lauren said...

Wow, SD... I have absolutely no idea what I would be doing right now if I were you. Probably just keeping going like you're doing, really. I mean, we all need to make a living. Hopefully someone more experienced than me will come along with some suggestions.

I'm feeling insanely lucky right now that I don't have a well-established shop yet. I'm hoping that AF will grow a lot in the coming year or so, which is the time I'm expecting to take to have what I consider to be a fully stocked shop... and then maybe sales will be better and established sellers like you will be able to profit from concentrating more on AF than Etsy.

Sara said...

I heart Surrender Dorothy

Zombie Dog said...

HRMB, you're not to blame for using a different email. Judging from the systems we use on Etsy as sellers and shoppers, I'm positive that their internal systems were written and designed by total nimrods.

UgaBugaBowls said...

SD - Have you double checked the Artfire help guides lately to make sure you're getting as much exposure there as possible? I realize you've been there a while but perhaps there's something new that might really push your traffic up.

In everything you sell, you might want to include a coupon to your Artfire shop. See if you can't get some of your regular customers to transfer over.

Anonymous said...

Sandahl here....

It's quite amazing how many are being warned and/or muted for saying the least little thing against Etsy or its cupcakes.

And of course, these people cannot speak up against the treatment they received from Etsy for fear of losing their shops.

Aunt Onery said...

Well yikes, I went to the Alexa link to leave a review regarding Etsy. (EB's, move my comment here to wherever you'd like but it's somewhat related to SD's recent treatment.)

On Alexa, it instructs that you may sign in via Facebook...so I did and left a pretty gnarly comment that agreed totally with ocean56's post. Now I'm kind of wishing I hadn't signed in via FB since my name there is a conglomeration which has my etsy shop name in it. So much for anonymity if Etsy reads it. Waiting and hoping the "muting" shoe doesn't drop on me as has happened to so many who defy Etsy. Or worse, a shop closing like what SurrenderDorothy went through. I'm still in process of eventually getting the hell out of that place but would still like to scoop up all my customer feedback first in case premature ejectulation happens.

What a crappy vindictive bunch of
creeps run that place.

whome? said...

Another beautiful day in the neighborhood of Etsyfuck.

Not at all surprised and will be reading more shop closures on EB, I'm sure.

Anonymous said...

HA! Did anyone catch Dorothy on the FRONT PAGE last week? I forget which day but there she was, yay!

I guess all is "forgiven" as far as etsy is concerned if they're promoting her on the FP.
But then again, that would be assuming they pay attention to the sellers who they put on the FP.

Whatever the reasons, Go Dorothy!!

The Cranky One said...

you don't think that was a mistake do ya?

etsy has shown a history of putting some long time trouble makers some love after muting them or such on the Dorque or FP as a way of saying "this could be yours if you shut the fuck up".

Lauren said...

I thought it was more like "Oh no, we pissed off the community by muting someone they love - sorry?"

betty bead said...

I just discovered this blog and I freakin' LOVE it!!!
I, too, spoke out in one of the forums regarding their "glitch" and got myself suspended for 7 days because of it.

Maureen said...

Wow does this sound familiar. I was also one of the names sent out through the treasury mess. And, I have apparently been a little too vocal in the forums about how I feel. The announcement changes, coralgate and the other night when no emails were being sent out to buyers or sellers notifying them of sales/purchases/convos. So yeah, I usually pay my bill right on the extreme edge of late (continued)

Maureen said...

But after 2 years of doing that they have never done anything to me before. But guess what? After shooting my mouth off in the forums POW! You are suspended and muted.
They say I have to ALL fees before they "might" let me back, including the fees that are not overdue.
Arbitrary rules that are enforced arbitrarily. If you rely on Etsy for a living do not speak out, or you will be sorry. In the first paragraphs of the TOU it says that basically Etsy has no rules for themselves, and they can toss you off for no reason anytime they want. Believe it.