Tuesday, November 10, 2009

No, its not okay to do it again, Etsy.

The Gift Guide button is back. This time, its huge, orange and ugly. It draws people away from our shops.

They did this around this time last year and it wasn't okay then. I wonder what made them think it is okay now? Oh, that's right, they don't think. I don't think they have any more common sense than a two year old.

Voice your disgust in this thread here.

EDIT

Yay! They've taken it down.. For now.

82 Comments:

Mitaine said...

Oh nice. Flashy orange exposure for their incestuous gift guides. Of course they wouldn't give such exposure to their 15$ 24hrs showcases. Nice.

eclipse said...

and this thread
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6343981

and this thread
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6344008

and this thread
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6344135

it's just horrible and everyone hates it. even people who never complain about anything, hate it.

(posting logged out, too lazy to log into blogger acct, but this is eclipse)

eclipse said...

and this thread http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6344121

and this thread http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6344133

and this thread http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6344068

and this thread http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6344089

The Funny One said...

Stop buying showcases because Etsy's set up the entire site to work AGAINST MOST SELLERS. If you aren't already a fave, forget it, Etsy is fired up with hitting the repeat button when they show up to work, & the elbow is hitting the new Repeat Your Tweet button.

We're Etsy! We can do anything we want!

Sellers want to be heard? Stop spending money on your store (esp showcases) for the holidays---shoppers are as bored and turned off as sellers are.

FaLaLaLaLa said...

Happy Holiday
Happy holiday, happy holiday
While the merry bells keep ringing
May your ev'ry wish come true

Happy holiday, happy holiday
May the calendar keep bringing
Happy holidays to you

NofFooled said...

They did it the year before I think too. 2007 or whenever the showcases were first up.

Betsy B. said...

Thanks again EB's for getting on this so quickly. I found the many forum threads against the gift guide button a bit hopeful. Not only is the Gift Guide button a tool to pull shoppers away from our stores, it seems to have had an adverse effect on the etsy hack tools people use to run their shops. I am so happy I decided to sell my wares else where this holiday season. That link to the Etsy Brand Items is like a slap in the face to all sellers.

whyohwhy said...

Good grief. Mary Mary is making me rethink the meaning of the word Merry.

Danielle said...

The petition has been up for an hour and has 430 different shop signatures on it! It can be found here:

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6344121

sparegus said...

wow.
I already only make about 3 sales a year. This will help tremendously.

whatever said...

I am going to stock my stores elsewhere- I have 3 other shops, none of which have a link to take shoppers away.

Carol B said...

There's a nice little uncensored penis ornament in the gag gifts guide. http://www.etsy.com/gift-guides/gag-gifts/262 .

Indigo said...

Hee hee! Etsy sucks, and nobody wants to leave, because they loooooooove it. Well guess what Etsy doesn't love you, and never will. Unless you make crochet glasses and owls with cowls. So people, if you love Etsy so much, then you better start making Etsy approved items in your Sweatsy shop. And don't forget the FREE SHIPPING!!!

its over said...

OMG I started crying hard.

I'm struggling like hell to make ends meet, I'm on other venues but Etsy is my main selling place.

Now? Today I got a total of 0 sales, and my GA shows people are only staying in my shop 2 seconds.

I quit.

Make Way for Deliciousness said...

Oh wtf, I didn't even notice the gift guide button actually appears on peoples' shop pages until reading this (obviously I haven't checked out my shop in a while). That's incredibly crass.

Anyone have any recommendations for good web designers? I think it's time to get my personal website shop up and running.

MissAudrey said...

Patience is a virtue, stealing is a sin and I feel robbed. Carol B - I hadn't seen that particular gift guide but there's a gross "kawaii" bloody tampon finger puppet for $35 and if that's not ridiculous, what is?? Oh, and the "gold poop" award which has a very poor quality photo, not the kind you're encouraged to take to get featured. I guess I'll go to the bathroom and start crafting so I can get some sales, ain't that some sh*t!

banner war said...

Fight fire with fire!
Replace your banner!

[url=http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?7a926013da.jpg][img]http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.7a926013da.jpg[/img][/url]

or
[url=http://www.freeimagehosting.net/][img]http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/ebab74110c.jpg[/img][/url]

ummmmmmno said...

not only did I voice my disgust, but I doubt after the new year I will be a seller there ever again. Those asshats with their gift guides button....it looks like a big ole hemorroid..

Merry freakin Christmas Etsy...hope you choke on your glue guns and cowls.

Liv'nGood Jewelry said...

This is just proof to me that all things happen for a reason. I had a glitch today that led me to finally bite the bullet and sign a hosting deal for a shop of my very very own.

Then I go to check in on my Etsy store and what do I see but a big orange banner driving traffic away from me.

Guess where I'll be spending my online efforts from now on...

Big Orange Blight said...

Ah so this isn't the first time they've done it. Cute!

And of course, the lucky chosen few are piping up with how splashy and adorable that big orange blight is.

Even if I were featured in a GG, I'd think this was a crap move.

BOB said...

Hmm, I'm thinking that golden poop award might be an ode to the certain someones who have let their Etsy success inflate their egos.

They certainly think they shit gold.

Glad I'm Done said...

I'm not sure why anyone who isn't in the Favored 20 bothers to list anymore. Thankfully, I gave up on listing earlier this year, which turned out to be the best decision of my lifetime.

All I see on the forums are:
1. Sales are bad
2. Views are bad

I hate to be blunt, but sellers need to wake up and see that etsy is not out to help us little people. Ever since Maria took over, the site is looking more and more like another "e" site that everyone says they hate.

The only way that any of the etsy nonsense has a chance of changing (and with those who love cupcakes, I'm not sure they will change even then) is for a vast amount of sellers to stop giving etsy their money.

If sales and views are bad now, that neon sign to the gift guide sure isn't going to help you any.

Now if admin were normal, this was a plan of action months in the making. At the very least, they should have warned the sellers what was coming well before now. The only "smart" thing about this is they know they have trapped so many people who have already paid for their Christmas listings.

Shame on you Admin!

WindysDesigns said...

Here's my solution:http://www.etsy.com/shop/WindysDesigns

RRobin said...

Petitions are a waste of time. They'll never remove it. Etsy will never concede that much power to its customers. It would set a precedent. The wretched thing is here to stay.

Of course, I would love to be proven wrong, but that's not going to happen.

wisearse said...

etsy is about as democratic as the GD US congress.
As far as I can tell the tremendous amount of squacking on the forums has gotten zero response from the children in "admin"

also ditto on the super crappy favoritism in the GGs.

Why do I feel like etsy is being run by elementary school girls?

Boggled said...

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but sellers aren't allowed to post links in their Etsy shop that direct shoppers to purchase items elsewhere (e.g. through your own website). Yet now Etsy has forcibly inserted a highly-visible link that does just that...except that it's not benefiting me, and in fact WILL be harmful to my business. (Hope that makes sense.)

For all the time, money, and effort I spend trying to rout traffic to my shop, this is more than a slap in the face, it's a sucker-punch to the gut. And right before the holidays too...thanks for nothing.

DoNotWant said...

No way in hell. I'm even in a GG right now, and I don't like this. Not one bit.

working on my website said...

dbabcock: 6 gift guides

Ah, that list explains why that ornament that looks a like an elementary school kid fooling around with white glue and paint made it to the front page. They have some great stuff, no doubt, but that little ornament was not an example of it.

Its my current exhibit A that photos and great product is not FP determining factors as often as they like to say it is.

The Funny One said...

Sadly, Glad I'm Done and RRobin are right, seller petitions and protests only make Etsy dig in deeper and retaliate against sellers, so if you aren't on their shit list already, you will be soon.

Stop buying showcases immediately and demand a refund for ones you already booked. Reason? Unfair competition.

Get the word out to your customers and if you're already set up on other sites, spend time directing your customers to your new location(s).

This is a good time to make a move and take your customers with you.

Roberta said...

I think the handwriting is on the wall for etsy. There is way too much weird/disgusting stuff and it is being picked up by another site-who's-name-cannot-be-mentioned. Starts with R ends with Y.

Now whenever I mention I have my work on etsy, people say oh have you seen the site-who's-name-cannot-be-mentioned?

It is embarassing to be associated with it t this point in time.

handweaver said...

Personally, I love how they did this the night (day?) before a Holiday... That way people can scream in the forums all they want and they're not there to hear it.

irritated said...

OMFG. Unbelievable. I do believe this is the last straw etsy.

HOWDY said...

The Gift Guides are EMBARRASSING.
The choices, the repeats, AND THE MISSTAGS. Oh, and don't forget the resellers and questionable TOU violators.
Push them, fuck the artisans who have integrity and talent.
AND FUCK ETSY EMPLOYEES.

onagainoffagain said...

Aaah. Once again, Etsy has proven ignoring things will work. People are letting the threads die and going about their business. The box will remain and then there will be countless threads on why there was no holiday rush. Not that there is anyway.

SpamMe? Spam You. said...

I would love a list of all the etsy admin, employees and investors compiled with their twitter account names and etsy names.

Maybe it's time to get their attention with a mass mailing that they have to sort thru.

It's just too easy to ignore the uproar in the forums.
It will be less easy for Maria to ignore 600 tweets cluttering up her in box, or MaryMary getting 700 convos.

peacekeeperredux said...

I had trouble finding the convo tab I was so mesmerized by the new Etsy Admin pet favorite tab "The Gift Guide" now robbing my personal shop of space, and mis-directing shopper's attention.

I feel like a display only enhancement accessory for Etsy Admin favorites with this latest stunt of theirs. It is only a miracle or in some cases intense, white hot persistence, that rank and file sellers sell anything on this site the way Etsy Admin trash sellers.

I want to organize another situation to sell but survival is enforced by the "new recession" mode and there is no margin for movement right now, money issues, etc here in San Francisco.

Installing this tab in the height of the holiday the way they did it is a huge F*****u

I think they did this before and the forums went berserk and they took it down, maybe 3 years ago?

Maybe they thought with the massive turnover on Etsy with sellers leaving, the new sellers would be more docile?

As for the site that cannot be mentioned that starts with an R. I luckily figured out Etsy is in bad taste kitsch dept three years ago when I saw some Anna Nicole Smith finger puppets created a few days after her death. They sold immediately.


In urban areas casual daily bullying is off the charts on public transportation, and in most public venues. Etsy Admin are as scary to me as the ironic sarcastic hipsters I have to contend with daily, trying to live in SF, my home town.

I feel sellers are routinely bullied by Etsy Admin. This new gift guide tab is a bullying tactic.

upsetwithadmin said...

It really sucks when you have a repeat buyer convo you asking about why the orange button took them away from your shop.

Indigo said...

Handweaver, that was the genius part of their diabolical plan. They don't care where the money comes from, just as long as the money keeps rolling into Maria's pocket...

Good for them. The orange button is spectacular, from their point of view. Because who cares about sellers...certainly not Etsy!

patti said...

Windy's Designs, I love your banner and hope you don't mind if I borrow your idea.
Thanks.

Kelly said...

Oh why don't they just change it to read Etsy's Favorite Sellers and get it overwith. I am so disgusted by the big orange blemish I could barf something up the same color.

AnotherTypeofBiotch said...

OMG Windy! That is so AWESOME! So clever and must make you feel good showing that banner!! ha!

life-during-wartime said...

I have to admit that I was browsing for something specific to purchase on Etsy yesterday evening, but never noticed the gift guide button. I never look at banners or avatars, either, so obviously I am not a typical Etsy shopper.

I think the retaliation banner is a great idea. Etsy put those buttons on every page because Etsy's current target market is the type of woman who wants to be 'guided' or led around with her herd. She is way too dense to get what the banner represents, and would probably think it's an Etsy sanctioned promotion. There is no rude or mocking wording on it that would upset someone by provoking them to think. Works on the same principle as putting a lifesized cardboard standup figure of a cop in a store to discourage theft. Brilliant.

WindysDesigns said...

Feel free to copy my banner idea or if you can't make one, I have one ready and can make one for you. I've already done a few for people already. Just send me a convo with what you want the personalize part to say.

thequietonespissed said...

Does this smell of a diversion to get off of the topic of no seller refunds???

Methinks I smell a big Orange RAT!!!

sleepingcat said...

Believe it or not, it was even a brighter orange when it was first rolled out...I had to scroll down a bit because it hurt my eyes it was so distracting. It may as well have been blinking or sparkling it was so obnoxious. Many of us LIKE etsy because the site is so clean looking.

Well, for MY solution see my shop announcement ;)

http://www.etsy.com/shop/sleepingcatbeads

Geronimo!.... said...

I'm not really surprised, but am a bit shocked that they would do this AGAIN but worse this time.

The orange button sure isn't subtle. It's hideous. It doesn't even fit the menu.

And ... why? Does Etsy benefit in someway more from having a sale from an item in the Gift Guides rather than elsewhere on the site?

Didn't we go through this like three years ago, two years ago?

It's really time for Etsy to stop thinking they have any business 'curating' and telling people what the 'trends' and best stuff on the site is. Fire the merchandising staff.

RRobin said...

Quoting wisearse...

Why do I feel like etsy is being run by elementary school girls?

**

Because mentality-wise, it is.

RRobin said...

Quoting Kelly...
Oh why don't they just change it to read Etsy's Favorite Sellers and get it overwith.

**

Agreed. Actual magazines have sections they call "Editors' Picks" or "Editors' Favorites," and since Etsy is at root an online trends magazine supported by a two-tiered sales venue (instead of by direct advertising), they should at least be honest about what they are doing.

In the bonafide publishing world, Gift Guides refer to sections where sellers buy ad space, usually 1/4 page in hard-copy versions, similar to what Etsy calls its Showcase.

Typical of Etsy to not use industry-standard lingo and instead to just make up things as they go along.

And typical of Etsy to promote its Favorites at the expense of its paid-ad-buyers. A real magazine would go out of business if it pulled that, as advertisers jumped ship.

Etsy will continue to abuse its paying customers as long as they have a constant clientele made up of:

A) new suckers --I mean sellers -- listing products, and

B) old sellers who believe they have nowhere else to go.

Etsy keeps serving the A people cupcake dreams of quitting their dayjobs, and the B people kool-aid that Etsy is the only site with any traffic. And the people keep consuming it.

If that insipid* orange link directed people to the Etsy Showcases, in which anyone can buy space, the thing would not bother me half so much.

*Must EVERY SINGLE PAGE AND FUCTION on Etsy have those same milk-curdlingly-cutesy graphics on it? Does somebody actually get paid for sitting in a Brooklyn office all day and drawing that stuff?

they changed it! said...

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6345236

they're going to remove it

HOWDY said...

matt says:
Hello Friends,

Yesterday we made changes to the Global Navigation, the gray bar that appears on every page. Our intention was to inspire and engage Holiday shoppers, not to redirect traffic from individual shops.

In retrospect, we realize that we implemented this change without adequate communication and community input and we apologize for this. We have decided to remove the Gift Guide link from the top navigation and will do so as soon as technically possible.

We do take seriously the need to strike the right balance between the shopper experience and the needs of the seller community. To that end, we intend to discuss first with Etsy’s Community Council and then more broadly the notion that the global navigation can be utilized as a beacon or guide to engage shoppers for the betterment of the entire Etsy Community.

Respectfully Yours,

Matt and Mary
Posted at 5:56 pm, November 11 2009 EST - Report this post

HOW SOON? ANY BETS ON THIS?

foxaz said...

Matt says they're going to remove it:

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6345236

eclipse is happy said...

They are going to remove it!!!

YAY!!!

The Dangerous Mezzo said...

"Does this smell of a diversion to get off of the topic of no seller refunds???

Methinks I smell a big Orange RAT!!!"

BINGO.

And now that the decision is being rescinded, and Matt, once again, has been sent to apologize, can ANYONE tell me why people are thanking Etsy? For what? Creating drama? Wasting people's time and energy? Fuck them.

NotFooled said...

Yes, supposedly they are going to remove it...........For Now.

Make sure you read closely. This idea is not out the window according to the copy and paste answer Matt and Mary posted. They will be doing something like this again. Mark my words.

Oh, and for you EB's, make sure you check out the Etsy twitter about this. Seems very snarky to me. How surprising!

The Funny One said...

Please read Matt's statement about 5 times to get the real meaning. Etsy MIGHT remove the top banner GG button, but they WILL PUT IT BACK SOMEWHERE ON THE SITE that is still accessible to shoppers, even if it
(1) interrupts your paid showcase spot (don't buy them)
(2) no matter what, Etsy is going to direct shoppers TO THEIR FAVES as they have done for the last 12 months.

Etsy has worked very hard to increase sales for it's aggressively promoted sellers TO THE DETRIMENT OF ALMOST ALL OTHER SELLERS ON THE SITE.

Please google your own shop to see that Etsy is embedded in every listing, and that shoppers are sent to "similar items" which probably do not include your store.

Etsy can claim "they had no idea" but read how the site is set up -- no matter where you click, you end up in an Etsy Fave Store. Every word on the site is aimed to get shoppers into Etsy Fave Stores.

This is the consequence of Etsy branding, which has turned the site into a one-trick-pony.

Go the the descrip headline of each GG - what does it say? It has links to all the Etsy-written dorkies promoting the SAME STORES IN THE GG'S.

It's a racket and it's to prevent most sellers from selling on Etsy.

I predict the shoppers will flee along with the sellers ----- just be sure to take your money and customers with you. The negative buzz about Etsy will do the rest.

Etsy is well on its way to the deadpool, don't get caught in their self-propelled destruction.

eclipse said...

Why am I saying Thank You?

Yes I know, it is still disturbing that they even did it in the first place, after doing it & removing it 2 years ago. They should have learned then.
And it is still disturbing that the announcement leaves the door cracked open for a modified "beacon" of some sort to return, someday.
(beacon= DO NOT WANT)
Certainly these are all valid issues and the return/refunds issue remains unsolved.
But, people are thanking them because they listened. Thousands asked for the damn thing to be removed and it was. It may come back next year, but for now the wolf is at bay and for the short term people need sales in these next 2 crucial months. If we have to fight the wolf again next year, we will.

I can say 'Thank You' while still feeling it never should have been done in the first place. These do not cancel eachother out. In some ways Etsy is like a small child and you have to lavish it with praise if it even does anything right. If they correct a mistake and then you just continue to say "well OK BUT you shouldn't have done it at all", they have no positive reinforcement to listen to users next time. They will think there's no point istening if they get bashed no matter what.

Plus, just for me personally, I need a break from being upset. The AF stuff this week and then this damn button at Etsy, made me SO discouraged with selling anywhere. I needed something happy today. So if I choose to be releived over a small thing (well it wasn't a small thing it was a pretty big deal) and say Thank You, it doesn't mean I think Etsy can do no wrong. They do a lot wrong. They will probably fuck up again real soon.
But they occasionally do right and if I don't acknowledge that I am as bad as a cupcake.
I do feel upset they even put people through this emotional ringer the last 24 hours. It was extremely upsetting and completely unnecessary. But you can't undo the past you can only change the future, they took the damn button out so I'm going to say Thank You.

Thank you Etsy, until next time.

Eveline said...

As I said in the thread about this hiddeous orange button, I find it disgusting how MaryMary puts on that fake cheerful tone in her replies. 'Ohh, how nice that you've noticed the button'. WTF? YES we noticed, and NO we're not happy. Nothing nice about it...

Then she went on saying that she is 'listening' to the concerns, which funny enough were exactly the same as last time they pulled this stunt.

Now it's gone, and they make it sound as if they listened to the community and that they never intended to cause anyone any pain over this.. Yeah righto Etsy, as if anyone believes you.

But of course, there are people falling over themselves trying to get a big 'Thank You Etsy' out. No, NO thank you! They tried to fuck you over ONCE AGAIN. And they were smiling in your face while stabbing you in the back.

The only reason they now changed it is because there was ppl. changing their avatars over it, even putting their shops on vacation mode or threatening to either stop relisting/renewing or even quitting. And that's when they decided to get rid of the button, not because they were trying to do something nice for the community.

If they wanted to do something nice they would not try something as disgusting as this again.

I am soooo done with Etsy!

Le sigh said...

For the GG featured orange button cheerleaders mourning the loss of their precious advertising...

Never fear, your darling felted brooches and "treasure bowls" that look like my cat's hairballs dipped in kool-aid will still get plenty of views for being in FOUR different gift guides.

Shut the hell up already.

RRobin said...

RRobin said...
Petitions are a waste of time. They'll never remove it. Etsy will never concede that much power to its customers. It would set a precedent. The wretched thing is here to stay.

Of course, I would love to be proven wrong, but that's not going to happen.

November 11, 2009 1:04 AM

**

Well, I am happy to have been proven wrong!
RR

Evermore Organics said...

I think Etsy did this deliberately so they could take it down and act like they are responsive to the needs of sellers. This is all a game, and yes, its probably to distract from recent shenanigans.

Someone mentioned how Etsy holds sellers hostage in a way, doing their damndest to perpetuate the QYDJ myth, and the idea that sellers dont have anywhere else to go. If you spend 5 minutes with the math youll realize QYDJ *is* a myth and for most its mathematically impossible. To that end, Im starting to invite artists to sell on my site. I feel awful for people who feel they have no options, and I cringe everyday when someone comes to me and tells me theyre opening an Etsy shop. Oh how happy they are! They think it will solve all their problems!

Shame on Etsy. Im done.

marcelly said...

that 'thank you' thread made me shudder.

dare i liken it to group masturbation?

"Oh thank you Etsy for screwing me then not screwing me then screwing me some more!"

fucktardo's!

The Funny One said...

Dont' be fooled eclipse, the GG button will be back in a matter of hours in another shape and form. Thanking Etsy for reversing a very bad business decision, one of dozens in the last 6 months is like thanking your store manager for blocking shoppers from entering your store. Why Etsy shoots itself in the foot once a week is beyond me.

What pisses me off is that Etsy writes like a 2 year old in countless blog posts, and writes like a failed biz school student circa 1940 when they "Announce" that Etsy IS NOT SORRY and sellers GET NO CREDIT because every time Etsy screws up, they still insist they CAN DO NO WRONG. Their attitude and arrogance hasn't changed one bit.

Community Council my ass - if they were consulted BEFOREHAND, would this whole fiasco have happened? Tells you what Etsy thinks of the CC - it's a joke and Etsy tells them nothing.

Sellers have learned a lot in 24 hours, but Etsy hasn't learned a damn thing in 5 years. We do know they make changes based only on their priorities, which clearly have nothing to do with sellers.

The focus should be on forcing more change on Etsy including dumping the GG's immediately --- because the bigger they get, the more shoppers they push away from the site.

Etsy only attracts shoppers who buy from their fave sellers, the rest left a long time ago. If you think you have a chance of selling on Etsy for the holidays, forget it. They've stacked the decks so high that 2009 proves you cannot sell on Etsy if you are not relentlessly promoted on Etsy for listing what they tell you to.

Sellers are THANKING ETSY for making it impossible to sell? and turning the site into a sorry excuse for all things handmade?

You know why many sellers aren't selling on other sites? Because Etsy has infected the whole handmade online scene with cheap crap that has nothing to do with handmade. Because of Etsy, most shoppers think it's just another mass produced product at a cheaper price - for 15 year olds.

The Dangerous Mezzo said...

I do understand what you're saying, eclipse. I've been out of the Etsy loop for a long time (and quite happily so), so maybe I have more psychic energy to rage against the pricks :)

When I was on Etsy regularly, I had to ration my outrage, because I knew it would could drag me down. And it did. Which is why I left.

But I still take an interest in the many ways Etsy continues to fuck up a really great idea. Getting rid of Kalin would have been brilliant, if Maria had made substantial changes to the underpinnings (including the staff) and stayed committed to the larger vision. Instead the whole thing has been reworked into "Hipster In Style" or something worse, and the basic respect for handmade has gone.

Good bye, Etsy.

Betsy B. said...

The GG thingy got removed because sellers took time away from their work to demand it be taken off their shop page. Today, I can't send a convo because the convos aren't working properly. There are presently two pages regarding this in the bugs section of the forums. Views are screwed up and when I tried to go back to Etsy from here it says they are down for maintenance. I need my convos because the new people keep asking me about or are purchasing my RESERVED items. Thanks for letting me bitch here. Love you guys

Combustion Glassworks said...

LOVE that Sark did what i was wondering about...

a shop being in EIHT freaking GG's? holy shit.

One point not talked about is that they were also doing this to make MORE money, period. If the average sale is $15, then a real easy way to make more money would be to usher people into the 'luxury' type GG's where everything is $250 and up..

Cupcakes.. dont forget. they basically put their hand in all of our back pockets, stole our wallet, got caught doing it and then said 'just kidding i swear,' with their fingers crossed behind their back.

1 step forward, 3 steps back said...

They may have 'fixed' it, but they'll punish us for it.

1. Views haven't worked since the fix.

2. Convos are messed up.

3. They added the original listing date to the bottom of our listings. So, if you've been renewing for the last year, the original date is now displayed.

eclipse said...

I am not "fooled" Funnyone, if you read my whole post it says I know it will be back. The wolf is at bay for the moment. If it comes back, we will fight it again.

I don't think it will be back in a matter of hours. I think it will be back after the holidays, and for many sellers who are needing this holiday season to get into the black, for people whose Etsy income puts food in their children's mouths, this is a short term victory.

When people are in survival mode, even short term victories do matter. If you can stay alive for 1 more month, that matters. You worry about next month when you cross that bridge. Hopefully people who rely on Etsy for survival will look into other selling options so that by the time the button comes back in it's new incarnation, people are more prepared and not taken by surprise.

(I am not describing myself here because obviously I do not rely on my etsy shop for my livelihood, but I know people who do and this fight was for them.)

Old Hippie Bitch said...

"We do take seriously the need to strike the right balance between the shopper experience and the needs of the seller community."


So Etsy thinks the two are mutually exclusive?

They seem to imply that seller community "needs" are not related to the shopper experience. Pretty insulting...

Yeah, dumbass said...

I love the person who started a thread called "Am I the only one who doesn't care about the Gift Guide button?"

Um, yeah, dumbass, I wouldn't care either if I was in FIVE Gift Guides.

Headshaking said...

Surely people have clued in that etsy is a juried site now...paid for by all the "other" shop owners. It's a multi-million dollar playground for the hipster doofus admins.

My daughter in college told me in September that on campus etsy is on the school "what's out" list because they are trend sell-outs. So yesterday I asked her about the word "fucktard" (new to me, I guess I don't get out much). What does it mean I ask. This was her answer: someone who is a pretentious poser, they think they are smarter than & hipper than everyone, but everyone knows they aren't.

Hmmm. Now it all makes sense. Every seller's 20 cents is paying for this all this nonsense.

Danielle said...

I don't think it will be back up within hours but I DO think it will be back up by black friday... and judging by their childish vindictiveness, I imagine it will be bigger, brighter and possibly flashing... and it will showcase the same handful of sellers.

*headdesk*

I need to find a different venue.

Artfire is better said...

"Danielle said...

The petition has been up for an hour and has 430 different shop signatures on it!"
===========================

Well you know what they like to say...it's just the same ten people complaining...

The Funny One said...

Vindictive Etsy, you are so right Danielle. The plot thickens, and if the GG button isn't back soon, another unannounced site tweak that defies sellers will pop up and be as destructive as most of the '09 changes that sellers never asked for.

The sellers (and only a fraction are actually selling) aren't part of Etsy's thought process (if there is any) and the lack of respect couldn't be more clear.

While it might be in the handmade tradition to "fight for sellers who do make money" on Etsy, is it in the handmade tradition to keep sending loads of money-for-nothing to a site that has taken handmade and turned it into another big box commodity with ever-lower prices?

Like I said, sellers who can't sell on other sites are fighting the damage that Etsy's done to the entire reputation (& pricing) of handmade. And it'll last a lot longer than Etsy.

Betsy said...

Why are you people complaining? It's just an unobtrusive little button!!!

http://etcwtf.blogspot.com/2009/11/its-most-wonderful-time-of-year.html

Thanks for the inspiration, bitches!

Margaret said...

I do love the way these changes are ALWAYS rolled out in time for the holiday season. The Gift Guides were rolled out in the same ridiculous way. I'm amazed to see that they removed the button, disgusted that they decided to have the button there in the first place though. I've been busy with grad school this semester, and not really doing anything with my shop---but I'm frustrated to think of how to build a customer base back up.

mizdarlin said...

Now that it's gone, I would advise everyone to stay alert...nothing in that Etsyspeak little posting from Admin suggested that the Agent Orange tumour was gone for good; in fact I would say it suggested just the opposite..that after "consultation" it would return...they are determined, and I am determined too-to find another venue...I'm getting almost no sales now..and that stupid move left me with a probable ulcer, tense as we all are in anticipation of the holiday sales...if they do indeed ever come now...
I really think this was the final straw for me...there have been a few threads about alternatives-I'm checking out several...
Etsy was a great fantasy, but like most infatuations, the reality has a few warts and scabs that I don't think I can get past...

WindysDesigns said...

I didn't like the GG button, as evidenced by my post and my banner change, but I also have to be realistic about my expectations. I was prepared to live with it if I had to because I don't really believe we 'rent a shop' on Etsy. I feel that our fees pay for a space in their inventory for our products and the facilitation of the purchase. The real estate still belongs to Etsy and they have the right to put links anywhere, and we have the right to protest it, but I don't think we have the right to expect that they will remove it.

That being said, I also wonder why they did it again after the huge outcry when they did it 2 years ago and their subsequent removal of the GG button. I find it hard to believe that no one on the staff remembered what happened, or, perhaps it is just that they retain very little of all the stuff they supposedly "listen" to.

I try hard not to buy into the conspiracy theories, but I have a feeling that something is coming down the pike that we won't be expecting, we won't be happy about and they won't have any intention of changing it despite the outcry that ensues. And somewhere along the line, the GG button removal will be the example they use that they do listen and act upon our concerns.

Case in point....the refusal to refund fees on returns. I get that people don't like it, I get that people think it's unfair, I get that "everyone else" refunds these fees. They refund fees on transactions that are not paid for, for any transaction up to the point of mailing....just not returns. Is it really that big of a deal? Does someone deal with that many returns that this is going to be a hardship for them? Not to say that a few good points have been raised, such as the return of a OOAK item, it's a fair and reasonable situation to consider. But this constant harping and comparisons and veiled insults about the people behind Etsy is just going to wind up biting "us" in the rear end.

People say they would rather pay a small increase in fees to make up for this and have Etsy refund all transactions. If memory serves, the last increase doubled the listing fee. Who's to say that what you're thinking is acceptable is what they are going to do?

Don't presume you speak for me, I know fee increases are on the horizon. But I do not want a trade off that penalizes me for someone else's business practice.

I don't want a double listing fee increase. I don't want an increase in final value fees. I don't want to pay a flat fee per month for my Etsy shop. And yes, all of these could happen, if Etsy is as vindictive as people are saying, it would be feasible that they pay back all the complainers and the rest of us.

There are many things I don't like about Etsy, they are far from perfect, but experience tells me that you have to be very careful what you wish for because you just might get it.....and it will not be what you wanted in the way that you wanted it.

Shaunpie said...

experience tells me that you have to be very careful what you wish for because you just might get it.....and it will not be what you wanted in the way that you wanted it.
------------------------

Artfire gave people what they wished for and so far, I haven't seen any problems with it. It's new still and it doesn't have the traffic (YET), but they offer everything Etsy ever promised and didn't deliver (or only delivered AFTER Artfire did it first).

PS- I have heard rumors that EB is "in Artfire's back pocket" but who the heck cares? Frankly, if it's true, it doesn't make their points any less valid.

Rtisan said...

That "back pocket" thing came from PussDaddy. If you take her seriously, you will take all that BS seriously.
And I am not an EB-- but come here every day to read.

Another comment unrelated, but in response to the AF/Etsy subject:
I list in both. I wish that AF hadn't gone the vintage and supply route or even bothered with forums. I understand why they did it-- they needed to get attention to stay in business-- but the same problems Etsy has with forums and bad tagging and junky stuff is heading AF's way.
And I love vintage-- but doing anything but handmade and having a forum that has to be moderated opens such a huge can of worms (more like snakes).

WindysDesigns said...

Shawnpie, Etsy is Etsy, Artfire is Artfire. Both were conceived under very different circumstances. And each site has their faction that supports them with unfaltering loyalty.

You have to judge each site on it's own merits and stop comparing the two, because in reality they both have their pluses and their negatives.

As for Artfire giving people what they want, well, all I can say about that is the situation regarding the unlimited listings for basic shops. It's no secret that Artfire has notoriously low traffic, and I know that people have been vocal about this, wanting Artfire to do more to generate more traffic. Their answer to this was to open up unlimited listings for basic shops along with a tool to help them import these listings from Etsy. I saw a HUGE outcry against this and a LOT of people were not happy about it.

If you want to add deception to the list, how about the fact that after hundreds of sellers opened up basic shops because of the lure of unlimited listings and a tool to easily do it, they suddenly announce that basic shop items will not scroll across the front page, the items will be superceded by verified member listings and they find that in order to organize the hundreds of listings they just imported, they have to become a verified member.

No site is perfect, each of us has to decide what works best for us.

Galaxy6 said...

There are no website venues worth a shit right now, IMHO.
Therefore, my own, spinning alone in the universe.

The Funny One said...

I don't think you can COMPARE sites WindsyDesigns but that is what you do, while pointing out the faults of AF with Etsy as the model. That, and the issue of artifically low fees make no sense when you look at the Etsy ecommerce model. It rips most sellers off by blatantly giving free promotion and advertising to a few while charging the same fees for all sellers, gives false and misleading info, and claims to be a handmade marketplace when it is not. Etsy also intimidates its sellers, very evident in the new D&D's, which coerces sellers into coughing up a lot of money for nothing --- best example, the whole relisting myth.

The "other sites" don't have a chance if they mimic Etsy in any way, shape or form. But they also have one hell of a time dealing with sellers who have unrealistic expectations built up by Etsy sellers who have been ripped off and harassed & intimidated by Etsy's bullying tactics which include censoring its public forums and retaliating against sellers for purely personal reasons. Etsy thrives on scaring sellers, and pushing an agenda that screams cheap, imitation, copy, steal, and follow the forumula. It's one of the worst ecommerce models for selling handmade in the world.

If sellers still on Etsy spend most of their time trying to fit the Etsy forumula, they have no time to invest their time and efforts on other sites, which leaves the other sites scrambling for enough sellers to break even.

Etsy has all the traffic because most of their sellers market Etsy relentlessly FOR FREE, they don't do that for the other sites. Of course Etsy is going to get more traffic, but ONLY TRAFFIC TO ETSY FAVES who sell because Etsy promotes them 24/7. The rest may get some overflow traffic, but they ARE NO LONGER SELLING on Etsy at all.

I wish sellers (talking 100% handmade only) were focused on more important issues like who the hell thinks the Etsy model is GOOD for sellers? Who thinks it's OK that Etsy's done more damage to the the reputation, quality & pricing of handmade by turning into a big box commodity that shoppers think is just more mass produced junk for a low price? Who says it's right to tell sellers they have to set up & maintain a store (& pay fees) then DO ALL THEIR OWN MARKETING PLUS THE SITE'S MARKETING FOR FREE without any compensation? Who thinks it's ok to set up a fee-based service with NO customer service, and a punative system that punishes sellers for asking relevant business questions about their host site? Who says it's OK to treat handmade sellers like crap while charging them for NO service or for a set of services that actually makes it impossible for them to sell?

If sellers think it's a no-win situation, remember it's Etsy that put 95% of its sellers in that position, not the other way around. These 95% are still sending huge chunks of money to Etsy for nothing because they've been indoctrinated into a ecommerce model that simply DOES NOT WORK for most sellers.

Why the hell would any seller want any other site to do what Etsy's done? Comparing other sites to Etsy will lead to the same basic problems --- sellers will always be at a huge disadvantage while doing most of the host site's work for free WITHOUT any tangible benefits for the seller.