Thursday, August 28, 2008

Don't Let the Door Hit You In The Ass On Your Way Out!

Today it was announced in the Storque that founding Etsy members Haim Schoppik and Revolving Dork, a.k.a. Chris Maguire, are leaving Etsy.

"Leaving"? Leaving in the same way that Rob Kalin was moved demoted from CEO to Chief Cupcake Officer? Spin it, boys, spin it.

Goodbye, Chris. You'll have to find another company to vandalize the wikipedia for and other news editors to impersonate.

Goodbye, Haim. We're not really sure what you did, other than be on fire.



Three down, one to go. Worried yet, Jared?

70 Comments:

impetuous said...

I have no ill will toward either of these two. The site has simply surpassed their abilities. I take it as a good and healthy sign that these two are moving on. I have no doubt they were asked to resign, just as I have no doubt Rokali was asked to step down. The company isn't run by them anymore and I am sure all of the admin are uncertain if they will be kept or laid off. Sucks to be them.

confused said...

This is typical of Corporate America. The new guy has probably already been in very close contact with Marie and cupcake eater dude. He is not coming into any of this blindly. I am will to bet that he has done his homework on all of the people he will be managing and complied a list.

Or maybe RD and Haim was not happy that they were brining in the new guy and decided to cut and run. One will never know. I am pretty sure that they both signed Non Compete agreements and confidentiality agreements.

I would be dusting off my resume if I was the other programmers or put down the cupcake and actually start working. You know start coming up with solutions and stop being part of the problem.

Buh-bye! said...

Oh well. I can't say that I care much. My opinion of RD went bye-bye after he admitted in the forums that showing the same sellers in the gift guides over and over was intentional. He was quickly shushed by other admin but he meant to cause a stir and upset sellers - which he did.

Congrats on a job... done.

Pandora said...

The putsch is well underway! What will the new regime do with its unfettered power? Only time will tell! Mwaaahahahaha!

Just kidding, it's not really that diabolical. What it comes down to is "out with the old and in with the new." The only question is will the Bugs forum finally die down after Chad arrives? We shall see!

confused said...

Chad isn't going to be able to work miracles right off the bat, but I am hopeful that we will start seeing some changes in the right direction. Chad is going to have to have a good team to pull off anything significant quickly.

That's what she said...

A lot of times when new management comes in, they do a full analysis of the actual job descriptions for each employee (which also makes me wonder if half the employees there even have a job description). Perhaps that's why Maria has been so quiet. Perhaps these two are cutting their losses now before it all goes to hell in a hand-basket and while they're still employable and their names haven't been smeared all over the programming world.

godot said...

I don't think the cheerleaders in the forums will really miss RD and Haim. They are just afraid of change, and the fact that cupcakes will now cost 50 cents to sell.

I've been here long enough to remember when they impersonated people, and read private convos along with Rokali, because the could.

I think they were a liabilty for Maria and soon to be Chad. And since they all probably will leave with a boat load of money, I don't think they need to look for new employment anytime soon.

Rainbow mandala, anyone?


PS I think my 1st comment was lost, but if you find it no need to publish both.

The Disgruntled One said...

They may have been offered the chance to get out before they were pushed out.

From various hints dropped by Admin in the forums from time to time, it's clear that the back end of the site is a real mess and was never designed to cope with the traffic Etsy is getting.

That's the fault of Chris and Haim. Period.

The Funny One said...

I'll stand up and cheer when certain employees are actually kicked in the ass on their way out the door.

You know, the ones with the scary avatars who are now seasoned experts in treating sellers like shit.

Now, that would bring on a party in my house. Ya know, guys, like that would be so, ya know guys, like, awesome. Gee, gee, well, hey guys! Gonna miss ya!

just bitchy said...

I can't for a minute imagine that they are "fired" or "let go" or left without a buyout.

If I were Rob I would have built in nice buy-out packages for me and the other people there from the start when I took the VC.

That's how it works in business. You get bought out, not fired, when you are one of the people who started a company.

Golden parachutes are the norm.

They won't need new "jobs" if they negotiated the right deal before accepting the VC.

eclipse said...

I just hope these are the first of many to be shown the door. I have no beef with Haim but RD was a complete liability to any company he works for.

not suprised said...

Wow, did RD really say that about the Gift Guides?? I missed that entirely!

TheSneakyOne said...

user, you stupid dumbass, your comment was rejected because your reading comprehension was too low. We never said we were surprised.

Distressing Delilah said...

Woof! I know nothing of the politic of etsy..that is knew nothing until I found this blog today! Very interesting. Things have been terribly slow there lately..perphaps it isn't just me!

for reals said...

The comment about the gift guides cane be found here: http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5332609&page=2

Persephone said...

That link got cut off...any chance of seeing it again?

Elizabeth said...

*dancing*

Morrigan said...

Gee, who will tell us to clear our collective cache? Or that there is no problem, it must be something we did ("cause ya know - Etsy never makes mistakes)??

They're going before the actual competent folks come on board Sept. 1st. I'm not surprised.

nuvoip said...

I've been here long enough to remember when they impersonated people, and read private convos along with Rokali, because the could

--

I'm assuming you have proof of the impersonating, then?

gladys cravits said...

I'm sure the new guy will be bringing in his own staff just like Maria. I'm sure Maria has been poring over ALL of admin's job descriptions & actual activities during the day. It will be interesting to see the staff changes in the weeks & months to come! Let's hope Pete is doing more than taking out the recycling these days. Friends hiring friends just doesn't work at a certain point.

The Ebon Swan said...

Somebody tinyurl that last link, it's not showing all the way up in the comments.

impetuous said...

JustBitchy said:
"Golden parachutes are the norm."
_________

Etsy has never known how to capitalize on anything so I think their parachutes will be bronze at best.

foxaz said...

The listing and renewing problems (items not showing up) are still happening today.
Do you suppose the site has been set to "self-destruct" after these two are gone?

for reals said...

Here is that link again - I don't know if it will work.

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5332609&page=2

for reals said...

Oh, wait! I tinyulred it!

http://tinyurl.com/6dhmvl

Heather said...

Holy cow the comments in the "Goodbye Chris and Haim" post in the forums is comical at best and vomit inducing at worst.

"oh noes! I'm so a-scared big bad corporations are a-comin' in and going to alienate us sellers! Eeek! Etsy's a small friendly company!"

Fer fuck's sake. I guess these people don't realize "us sellers" have been asking for things for two/three years and tweedle-dum and tweedle-dee couldn't make it happen. Alienate sellers? That train's already left the station, sister!

Andy Mathis said...

nuvoip said...
I've been here long enough to remember when they impersonated people, and read private convos along with Rokali, because the could

--

I'm assuming you have proof of the impersonating, then?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

yes, that all goes back to the banning of the Etsy 5.

nuvoip said...

nuvoip said...
I've been here long enough to remember when they impersonated people, and read private convos along with Rokali, because the could

--

I'm assuming you have proof of the impersonating, then?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

yes, that all goes back to the banning of the Etsy 5.


--

Links, some sort of solid information, anything?

godot said...

nuvoip, yes there's proof. Info in private convos was used by the 3 etsy boys against the etsy 5. Note, I said "private convos"

Now, go clear your cache.

Cindy aka Lucinda said...

I am actually a bit interested in seeing whether the New Etsy team can revamp search and such before it gets too close to the Holidays...

The writing was certainly on the wall for this changing-of-the-guard. I bet Jared is a bit nervous...

angelstuff said...

I wish them the best of luck going forward but at the same time I'm very glad that they're leaving/were canned. They wrote the site - from the ground up - and basically refused to change things.

I've seen other developers do this, where they write something inadequate and later walk around telling people it's perfect and refusing to change it. And when they get to that point, it's time for them to go.

Personally, I've never understood their need to write everything from scratch; they clearly don't have sufficient backgrounds in UI, search algorithms, or databases to have started it all from scratch.

I am looking forward to Chad's arrival and I hope that things do start to get better.

confused said...

apparently etsy doesn't know the definition of private

jodie nicholson said...

eclipse said...
I just hope these are the first of many to be shown the door. I have no beef with Haim but RD was a complete liability to any company he works for.
-------------------------------
I was going to write something almost identical to what you said.

I'm looking forward to at least three more Admins leaving. All female, all inept at their jobs.

stella frankenstein said...

sometimes it is absolutely necessary to prune the dead, useless leaves from a plant to encourage new growth.

thank fuck someone's pruning etsy.

(i hope, at any rate...)

Eh-Hole said...

But, but, I wanted to have Retiring Dork's babies... all of them!

ebbandflo said...

wonder if RD's feeling a little paranoid these days? oh but we are all talking about him so i guess he must be!

(no, i haven't forgotten your little paranoid quip RD)

and PS: rokali is now the 'face of etsy' at GetSatisfaction, answering all the gripes that people post there.

adam selene said...

I doubt that Jared would be getting nervous - he is brilliant and unlike Chris & Haim, he is not defined only by his work at Etsy. Somehow it has always seemed that his work at Etsy was done more as a favour to them than anything else.

I for one will not miss RD's sarcasm and lack of respect for the users.

sad buddyb said...

On the subject of people who don't want to let go of their jobs, why do you suppose Rokali is moderating on getsatisfaction.com with the title CEO? Didn't he get the memo?

http://getsatisfaction.com/etsy/company_people

zander said...

well, that is one step in the right direction. chad and maria, i hope to hell that you will be able to pull off running etsy as a business and not a personal playground for the clueless. i will look forward to the change even if i have to pay .50 for a damned cupcake.

2cents said...

Unless I'm missing something (if so, please provide links), I've only seen 2 threads about the departure of RD & Haim.

And those 2 threads didn't last long and appear to be rather dead now.
Proves to me that the founders of etsy don't mean much of anything to the vast majority of sellers and those in the forums.

Most of the posts are sentimental blabber.
I don't care whether they were fired, resigned, got a huge buy-out or are off to work on etsy.org.
What the hell difference does it make anyway?

The old etsy has been gone for a long, long time.
The "spirit of etsy" is green and it's called money.

The Righteous One said...

nuvoip, please visit the link we provided in our article you obviously did not read...the impersonations were previously documented by the editors at UEN.

nuvoip said...

I did read that. I read it a long time ago, when it was first posted, too. I'm curious as to the proof of it 'all going back to the etsy 5', as someone said.

Ella said...

Ok, I don't want a company to rip me off, but seriously, aren't companies - ANY companies that aren't non-profit orgs. - out there to make money? I've seen a lot on the forums lately about etsy getting greedy - wtf? Companies need $ to stay in business! We need Etsy to turn a profit if we wish to continue selling/buying there, and if not, then why are people bothering to stay and talk about it - why not just leave if they apparently think etsy should become a non-profit organization?

---"The old etsy has been gone for a long, long time.
The "spirit of etsy" is green and it's called money."

jodie nicholson said...

Nuvoip, making the proof public could result in much bigger issues for the person or people who hold it. No one is going to supply the proof to you. You're welcome to believe or doubt the allegation as much as you'd like.

you're FIRED said...

Nuvoip, I guess I'd want to know just exactly how much crap someone had on me if I were looking for a job too.

etsynoobsterer said...

Sorry, this thread is very much the wrong place to ask this, but is there a reason why I got booted out of the EB forum? I'd posted only once, without offending anyone (I hope), and after that kept mum because I'm more of a lurker personality, nodding my agreement in the sidelines.

If I got chucked out as a suspected mole or some such, that's hilarious. It's the most (accidental) notoriety I've ever managed to garner in my fifteen years online!

No ill will from me, believe me - just curious.

ieatcupcakes said...

Will the bitches be sending in their resumes?

The Cranky One said...

Yes, they can make money, we're fine with that.

They are however seeming to deny sellers much needed features and services in lieu of bad practices that are misleasing and downright greedy.

Instead of fixing search, which sucks, they ENCOURAGE you to relist whether things sell or not. They changed the wording in "Your Etsy" to reflect that, from Exipration Dates to Renew Items.

Renewing is a big money maker , as many sellers desperate for sales will renew several times a week no matter if they make a sale or not, and its a behaviour that Etsy has encouraged. It makes them a lot of money.

The Funny One said...

I do hope sellers are waking up to the facts on Etsy, including the myths of relisting.

It no longer works.

Like all other promotional areas of the site (not 100% controlled by Etsy), they are completely ineffective due to saturation and overuse. With 170,000 stores (or so they say), the current tools no longer meet the needs of the site.

They are so completely inadequate, that it is a complete waste of seller time and hard-earned money to buy a showcase spot, OR RENEW. And sellers need to stop doing both now.

The Disgruntled One said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Disgruntled One said...

Rob Kalin has changed his title on getsatisfaction.com to CCO. Rob, are you a fan?

2cents said...

Of course companies are in a business to make money. That's my point.

All the nonsense about "the spirit of etsy" is just part of the illusion the founders created and then exploited.

It's business, plain and simple.
To discuss the spirit of it---as if etsy is some noble cause or altruistic endeavor--- is ridiculous.
To whine and cry about some of the founders moving on is silly.

impetuous said...

It does not matter one bit what Rokali does from this point on. He's a figure head.

This is my question. Why does a company the size of Etsy need to have a company sponsored spot on getsatisfaction?

And here is another brain twister. Why would a COO put his name to some outside customer service site instead of implementing the service for his own site?

And the final doozie? If you have a customer service account set up on another site to help your customers, WHY HAVEN'T YOU TOLD YOUR CUSTOMERS?

I sincerely hope Maria has this shit ironed out by the end of the year.

nuvoip said...

Nuvoip, I guess I'd want to know just exactly how much crap someone had on me if I were looking for a job too.

--


Sorry to disappoint, but, no.

The Funny One said...

You are so right, impetuous, but it's a self-adoration thing. And a cult thing, which is one of the legacies he left behind. That it's perfectly ok to sacrifice the mission for personal gains. You might be anti-big-business, but once you throw ethics out the window, are you really any better?

While Maria is cleaning up, she might enter the murky waters to figure out what her fulltime, paid employees actually do all day. And how many personal blogs and other self-promotions her paid employees have set up without full disclosure.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg as far as questionable ethics site-wide.

Andrea Q said...

I have been wondering about personal blogs of Etsy employees.

Ladies Auxilliary said...

Holy crap, Christmas in August!

Seriously though, I appreciate their place in Etsy history, and the work they did to get it off the ground. Impetuous' comment about the site surpassing their abilities is diplomatic and dead on, I couldn't agree more.

This supports my theory that it's just taking a little time for Maria to do the behind the scenes work that you need to do in a situation like this to affect meaningful and lasting change, and not just roll heads.

Rachel said...

Call me crazy and optimistic but I think this might be the beginning of a better etsy, after I clear my cache!

The Righteous One said...

etsynoobsterer, (and enidish, i saw the comment) shoot us an email, and we'll get it sorted out. etsybiatch@gmail

Julie said...

andrea - I've been wondering if they have any sort of guidelines in place for *not* working on their personal stores/blogs/etc. during the hours when they are being paid by etsy.

amytime said...

Well I'm not sure if this a sign of the times but I reported a shop for reselling and it was gone in less than 2 hours.

adam selene said...

impetuous said:
"Why does a company the size of Etsy need to have a company sponsored spot on getsatisfaction?"

When I looked over the getsatisfaction page, I noticed that it appears that someone (Rokali says it was him) signed up for it 11 months ago - which was the same time that the first question was asked. (What an odd coincidence.) However, I also noticed that it took 9 MONTHS for that first question to get answered. And now he's directing people back to Etsy support for answers. Um, yeah...

Probably it was one of those things he stumbled across one day and thought it was a neat idea so he signed up - and then promptly forgot all about it.

sad buddyb said...

Honestly, getsatisfaction.com is a fairly meaningless site. It just bugged me that he was listed as CEO when Maria is CEO.

I'll publicly admit - I'm a Maria fan. I've worked in corporate turnaround environments, and I understand how tough it is to turn a flailing business around while not making a public spectacle of yourself and whipping out the machete.

I think the changes Chad is bringing to the engineering group, and the scarcity of admin in the forum is a sign of tightening up the ship.

I suspect we'll see more admin back in the forum when they've been properly trained or replaced.

I'm feeling better about Etsy's future than I've felt in quite a while, actually :-)

I'm looking forward to seeing how they tighten up the Handmade mission statement adherence. That's a tough but critical item.

just bitchy said...

If they didn't negotiate SPECTACULAR buy-outs for themselves then they are far more useless than I originally thought.

If they walked away with only "options" or promises and no cash then they are bat shit crazy.

What's that.....

etsy = fail

~B.Z. said...

I am so out of touch with the Etsy Drama, but this news made me smile.

Nothing against Haim ...

but R.D. was a conceited, arrogant,Kindergarten-programmer :P

Enough said.

justajewelrydesigner said...

Am I paranoid??
WTF is THIS???
A test for WHAT???
this expires during the Holiday Season. IS it an exploding backdoor that will be the end of etsy??
http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=13989423

justalongfortheride said...

Am I paranoid??
WTF is THIS???
A test for WHAT???
this expires during the Holiday Season. IS it an exploding backdoor that will be the end of etsy??
http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=13989423
---------------------------------
Haha, wow. That is pretty bizarre.

This is ALL pretty bizarre.

stace said...

umm.... wow!

that's all.

curious said...

justajewelrydesigner said...
Am I paranoid??
WTF is THIS???
A test for WHAT???
this expires during the Holiday Season. IS it an exploding backdoor that will be the end of etsy??
http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=13989423
--------------------

what was it? i think it's gone now. does anyone have a screen shot?

SelfRighteousHarpy said...

AndyMathis knows of which he speaks -- brilliant detective work at the time, Andy. I followed your lead right into RD's Berkeley (?) home.

Personally, RD was fun at the beginning -- remember "OMG ? WTF????" -- but their baby just grew too big too fast for them. and I guess he didn't take well to that big world.

and nothing against Haim, either. the contest was hilarious.

It's sad, actually, the passing of an era. and the silliness and guerilla tactics that I actually enjoyed in a way. Of course, I was not one who was attacked -- my opinion might change if I were.

I loved the home-made, personal nature of the whole thing in the beginning. It's too bad they ended up not adding the right intellects as they grew, and allowed cronyism to thrive, despite seller dissatisfaction.