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We had the unfortunate pleasure of being entrusted with the news that several longstanding Etsy members were muted in the forums once admins returned to work on Monday and others have been sent formal warning letters. Ooooh, big bad scary admin. 'Don't work weekends and carry a big stick' isn't exactly the Teddy Roosevelt quote you all are trying for.
Supposedly, this thread got out of hand around page 54, though we think if admin had shut it sooner, or muted one person preemptively based on problems in other threads over the course of several months, it would have solved the problem of muting 5, possibly more, people. Which begs the question, does Etsy have a troll on the payroll?
The following people are now entitled to use the EB star or overlay when they can change their avatars in a week (Some have emailed us directly, others have been included by fellow mutees, please correct us if we get it wrong):
277 Comments:
Are you effing kidding me???
They are SO clearly and blatantly targeting the critics.
Etsy, you're not slick, we know what you're doing...
Let me get this straight:
She sends nasty convos, then starts this thread about her getting nasty convos:
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5754616
Which was closed...but the people she sent the nasty convos to were muted? Gah, what a bitch. I really wish the etsy forums had an "ignore" feature, and I've never used that on any other forum I've posted on. But her and a four legged troll...just exist to create trouble.
I strongly suggest that these newly muzzled sellers diversify where they sell if they rely on etsy for any portion of their income.
Now that you are on the radar I suspect your stay will be monitored closely and someone might push a button "accidentally."
Seriously fucked up, etsy, seriously fucked up....again.....as usual.
they're muted? and that brandedbutterfly isn't? wow. just wow.
Yeah, it's pretty clear what's going on, wtf. It's even more sickening when you actually see the specific posts that supposedly provided the reasons for the mutings.
Some people are allowed to say anything they want. I really do wonder if they're on the Etsy payroll, sometimes.
We've had a few comments about others in that thread not getting muted as they deserved to be...we don't know. (But we hope so too!)
We only posted what was provided to us, though we wish we could see into Etsy's computers and know everything :)
SherryTruitt is muted? But she was always so helpful and awesome. LAME!
really classy, etsy.
Maybe the person who wrote the article on bonnie and clyde should get some muting. heck, there would have been no thread and no page 54 of that thread if the bonnie and clyde storque had NEVER been written, errr, published.
Gah, etsy sucks.
Here are the new rules:
It's OK (probably condoned) for a cupcake to send unprovoked harassing convos to a grumpy hater, but it's a mutable offense for the grumpy hater to report the cupcake or ask them to stop the harassment.
ETSY, WHY ISN'T BRANDEDBUTTERFLY'S NAME ON THAT LIST OF MUTED PEOPLE?
It is SO not to do with that thread. That's just balls - pure and simple. It is a pathetic and transparent excuse to silence the intelligent, articulate and wellreasoned arguments those people have put forth.
You know what's really sad? Logged onto twitter - saw this title. Guessed Sherry was going to be in there.
Etsy can (legitimately) ignore the rants and whining - but a proper, informed, thoughful critique? Ah no - can't deal with that.
Sorry - being incoherent. Not normally lost for words but this is just sickening.
this reminds me of a certain shop that was closed because of a certain someone who was deliberately harassing said certain shop over and over again in the forums
there seems to be a real lack of logic up there in brooklyn
(no offense to brooklynners who don't work for etsy)
BB sends convos to people. unsolicited, unwarranted convos.
People then report the convos to Etsy. One receives a thank you from Admin for reporting the convo.
Only to get muted minutes later by 2 other Admin. And others who received the convo are also muted.
Yet, BB is fluttering around the forum. No muting, No problem.
Okay. that totally makes sense.
When you leave the playground on weekends, and it gets around that you're not around, you already knew it was going to be a food fight (as it was the last 4 weekends). But, being the little bullies that you are (and proud!), you make sure they pay and pay good.
Bad publicity has a much longer life than good publicity.
And money spent elsewhere is money well spent.
well I'm one of the muted, and I'm not a seller, I was a buyer. I guess it just clearly shows that Etsy does indeed play favorites. I'm not really bothered by my muting, because I did knowingly violate the forum rules (and I did so with pleasure), but I am shocked at the others who are muted. Those are some damn fine sellers, and they add to Etsy by offering great customer service and beautiful products. They should really stop selling there, if at all possible.
A little about my "history" of discipline: I was warned just once before my muting for some words I had with BrandedButterfly a few months ago. Nothing even close to what I said to PD, though. I think the thing is I'm not one to be passive-aggressive, I say what I mean, and mean what I say. I guess Etsy doesn't like when people tell it how it is?
i would LOVE to read the convos that brandedbutterfly sent.. just to find out what she doesn't have the guts to say in the forums.
I was muted. First, I was warned because of my little thread (very calling out) asking where to find Olympic coins, like I needed help.
I told RW in an email response to the muting (which, by the way, he advised me to find a more appropriate way to bring my concerns forth-- such as what??) that he would eventually have to mute me because those coins were the last straw.
Then, I was muted for my (admittedly) rude comments about the sophomoric writing in the Storque 24 HOURS BEFORE!
The only way for them to have dug up that thread and muted me for the comments was that I was reported.
And anyone who has had their eyes open for the last 6 months knows that PussDaddy has been on my trail, insulting me personally and my work in particular-- in public. I have reported her for this many times.
I am not paranoid to think that this is her work.
That being said, I dobn't care. My days selling my work on Etsy are numbered because it is so embarrassing to be affiliated with it-- and the learning curve is a long one for using my own website-- but I will be working on it for the next 7 days. RW did me a favor and forced me out of wasting my time in the forums, as nothing ever changes. At least, not the really important things.
Morgan
ps: My actual words to RW were:
"You will eventually have to mute me, because this issue is not going away. I will consider myself a martyr to the Mission Statement."
I thought it was clever. He didn't.
Whoa! I had to run and check my email to make sure I did not get a warning too. No warning. This time. The forums sure are a crapfest on the weekends. I really have to control myself around certain trolls. Really, I think that is the only reason some people are in the fora. To harass others. GET A LIFE.
Hola amigas,
When I was muted on etsy last night, I got an email that did not address me by name. Nor did it state the reason for my muting. It just pointed me to the do's and dont's.
I can assume I was muted because I publicly told Branded Buttefly not to send me any more harrassing convos. I also reported her to community@etsy.com, but no reply was forthcoming.
When a crazed etsy seller tells you, not to convo, her, not to reply in her threads and threatens you, what other recourse is available? Let me be clear. I knew I could possibly be muted for what I said in the fora. I was however, polite and to the point.
Yes, I criticize etsy. I also temper that critism with business acumen I have gained over the years, suggestions, advice and a promise to myself to answer questions in the fora even when the answers are painfully obvious.
My muting was in retribution for my outspoken style. But you all know that. I know too that my fellow peer mutees were silenced for the same reason.
Out of this experience only good will come. The world is conspiring in my favor.
Thank you all for your support.
Sherry
I'm not sure who said that first, but they are words to live by.
Okay, now I am really confused...why didn't BB get muted?
i don't think this kind of action reflects well on etsy at all, only a cursory glance thru the list shows who they are gunning for and its rampant favouritism for others
Anonymous, we'd love to approve your comments, but we can't. You must use some kind of nickname.
regalbeads is now running rampant this morning.
WTF? If they are going to mute people then they should at least be fair about it.
Maybe BB and RB are etsy approved trolls. That really is the only logical explanation I can come up with.
Yup. I'm sick and tired of the cat-troll and the butterfly, saying whatever they want, and everyone else gets muted.
Bigcatel, or anywhere else for that matter, anyone?
They really think that shutting people up will solve the problem. They'll really see the effects soon. I'm going to leave etsy to the eleventymillion resellers.
That is just ridiculous. I've given up reading the fora. The only threads are read are the ones linked to on here. I've posted 1 new item in my shop in the last month b/c I'm working on getting a shopping cart set up for my real site. Etsy is crashing and burning and I don't want to be on the plane when it hits the ground.
I just want to remind everyone that we attempt to be even-handed with not allowing personal attacks, though some side glances may make it through moderation, you will make the task so much easier if you don't call out other people by name.
We do appreciate what you have to add to the matter, and may even agree with you, but we're trying to be better than Etsy.
We want everyone to have a voice, but want to focus on criticizing Etsy. If anyone has a problem with this, our email is on the sidebar.
I want to take the time to remind everyone to not make direct attacks here. It only fuels them over there. I trust that everyone will take care to not feed the trolls.
embellisher, maybe we all should get cute animal avatars to keep us from getting muted? hehe
:)
lol Sneaky :) Jinx!
Sorry. I won't name names again. However, I am still confused why some were muted and others were not. Why some are allowed to run amuke and others are put into the corner.
Based on many things I've seen in the forums, BB is so far off her rocker that she's not even on the porch.
Last weekend was FAR from the first time that she's been nasty, hateful, and downright irrational.
Yet remains unmuted ... *sigh*
Confused,
We often wonder the same thing.
There are several that Etsy admin favor on the forums, a few that always come to anyone's mind and have been trolling for well over a year.
I would like to know who sends the muting emails. They're signed by several admin (from two or three forwarded messages I've seen, I assume this is common), but who really makes the decision? Surely, they only have the names listed so a single admin isn't called out on being an ass and so we can't track their actions exactly.
They started doing that after the DXO problems, did they not?
hmmmm
I just saw this sad turn of events on twitter. And who is in the first spot following etsybitch ?Why it's etsy admin, Bre Petis, Mr. Grumpy hater.
I beleive he is applying to the film school run by wristaroni.
The dissenting voices have really been silenced over at Etsy. I think CraftDiner will be the next to go -- she actually posted the names of the muted in a trollish thread and got the thread shut down by that compassionate and caring soul, RobWhite.
Maria must be fine with this, don't you think? Or is Rob reaching out from beyond the grave, um, I mean the office of Chief Cupcake Officer?
I'm sorry.
If you were a fan of DEADWOOD, try to imagine how I said that.
I really am sorry for naming names..I should know better.
Morgan
To everyone muted...I'm honestly not surprised as Etsy likes to silence their strongest critics...nor am I surprised at the speculated reason..I'd guessed as much when I saw the original thread and the "I'm being abused in convo!!!" thread.
Are the mutings for an indefinate amount of time?
Hey, I would love to see craft diner's locked thread. Anyone?
"Martyr to the Mission Statement"
Snark in Moderation, nope nope. Bad cupcake. No attacks here on this ground.
EVERYONE.
You will sell MORE once you give up etsy.
think of being muted as a blessing. you can take the time you wont be in the forums and build your own site!
:)
Then you will make more money and for each dollar you take in, you can sit back and laugh at how if only etsy would have made a doll category, they would have just gotten XXX dollars in listing fees. (hahahaa, sorry, back to the DAM thing)
but yeah, if they play faveorites then in the end, they will be surrounded by people like themselves and all the business savvy people will be long gone!
The righteous one is right again. It's obvious that no one is watching the store, but the cash register is almost empty anyway.
I bet the overspending got over spent, the mistake of hiring 63 people started eating the entire $27 mil, and someone realized the Dorque and Labs make zero zip nada money for the site. So, the asshat solution was to pull all weekend duty.
And I bet my weekly ration of kitty litter that sales are way down this past quarter.
But, life goes on and Etsy publicly admits the Dorque is more important, and they just broadcast with this latest (and biggest) round of mutings that they actually prefer to spend 3 days a week writing email mutes, warnings and other time wasters----then spend the rest writing their weekly quota of Dorque bad-taste-fiascos that destroy another dozen-seller reputations and make the site look like the Day of the Doomed.
63 people can eat through $27 mil faster than a box of Krispy Kremes.
BB is so far off her rocker that she's not even on the porch.
_________________________________
HA, I love that. EB can I nominate for a quote of the week?
wow. I knew things were kinda screwy, but always had respect for the admin and the job they had to do...
but now??? I feel sick. I dont understand the favortism being displayed. There are so many trolls in the fora that only go into posts to cause problems, and they are still around!!
I think this is an excellent reason to get my personal webpage going already. I would hate to be the next person muted on etsy, and will most certainly miss my etsy peeps, but thats just not right.
After almost 3 years on etsy and around the forums, I think I have seen all sort of favoritism, abusive muting and so on (and I am not alone).
I have been muted several time too.
I am sorry for those who were last night. I had no clue about the whole thing.
I was busy with some racist awful trolls. Those are still running around spitting their bile and hatred speech. No problem for them.
How come etsy muted and displeased some successfull sellers they even featured? (Morgan and Sherry)
Maybe to force them to crawl on the floor drooling and praying the etsy gods?
This is all stupid...
Oh and about Bonnie and Clyde...they really forgot to mention Natural Born Killer...
Or maybe etsy should changed its name to Natural Born Looser?
63 people can eat through $27 mil faster than a box of Krispy Kremes
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Ohh, and another nominee!
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5757458&page=1
shot down!
*puts on helmet and salutes*
Holy crap, dudes!
This is the most shameful and disgusting thing I've seen admin do EVER. Muting people for criticizing them, and NOT muting people who send threatening convos? Muting people for facetiously asking to be muted? What is this, RUSSIA?? This sickens me.
YOU SICKEN ME, ADMIN.
WTF etsy? It's like they're on a major power trip. Grow up!
Dictators silence their critics, not mature professionals who aren't insane. Oh wait, I guess etsy admin doesn't fall into that latter category either...my bad.
Every day more and more faith in their website is lost. Stupid pinheads.
time and time again etsy mutes the descending vote, the critical eye, the plea for improvement. who continues to run amok in the threads? animal trolls. what is it about the truth that etsy just can't seem to handle?
thank you esty, for the push to improve my website for future selling off your site.
and another thread bites the dust...
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5756918
I've started a Muted chatroom on etsy, come in and bitch with m if you're pissed by or affected by the mutings!
http://www.etsy.com/chat.php?room_id=Muted_Point
Its just getting worse and worse today... looks like admin is getting paid some overtime to close any threads that question WTF is happening!!
So very very sad.
I'm dumb and happy generally, but I did read through this and I'm so sorry for the members that got muted!
How long does a mute last?
Hey, I don't mind being outed (been out all my life), and I don't even mind being muted (I was rude), but what I don't like is certain (catty) individuals getting to feel self-satisfied for doing it to me! I did it to myself; it was worth it. Etsy admins are not part of the 'community'-- but paid employees and to my mind-- fair game. If you get paid for what you do and do a crappy job of it (esp in public), get ready to hear about it.
Morgan
Really, I'm not bothered by *my* 7 day muting. There are other places to spend money where I can find what I want quickly. However, I know many depend on Etsy to make money.
I know it can be challenging to go in a new direction, but really, Etsy is so full of shit at this point, I bet all of New York can smell them. If they want to tell you to kiss their ass (which is how I see these mutings), tell them to lick yours by leaving the site. I know you can't leave overnight, but start planning other avenues for your business. This time it's mutings, but who the hell knows how long it'll be before the bannings start...again.
Here is a poll to try and sort this out.
http://indienightmares.blogspot.com/
Are all of the mutings 7 days or are they permanent?
This is a huge black spot on Etsy's credibility. It's blatantly obvious to everyone they are squashing the critics, it has nothing to do with rudeness or disruption on the forum because the most disruptive people are still posting.
Etsy, at least have the sense next time to throw in a token slap on the hand to your designated pet trolls, just for appearances sake.
If sherry and pie were allegedly muted for publicly posting that they had received harassing convos, then why wasn't the sender of that convo muted when she started a whole thread announcing the same exact thing?
I am so sick of this bullshit.
At least they would act like you can say something and let us run off at the mouth for a good while, oh, like 22 pages. Seems like 4 is about what you get these days.
Quick, harsh, put your foot fown on em. Way to go, etsy.
And now the troublemakers walk around feeling like they're invincible and can say anything to anyone. I know that people are actually intimidated, as they can say whatever they like a with no repercussions.
Waiting for the day when they say something to an important mucky muck. For now we're just peons, I guess
Soco-- you can still buy, you just can't post in the forums. Don't let it stop you from spending your $ on us!
Morgan
I don't know where else to post this so feel free to move this admin Bitches.
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5757798
So, marymary is now only quoting certain portions of the TOS and D&Ds and in a very misleading way.
They just said employees are fine and how we run our businesses is up to us and they do specifically say collectives are fine in the rules.
WTF?????
Sorry. I forgot some of you can't see full links.
This is the number of the post in Site Help:
5757798
"If sherry and pie were allegedly muted for publicly posting that they had received harassing convos, then why wasn't the sender of that convo muted when she started a whole thread announcing the same exact thing?"
This was exactly my thought, as well. At first I thought it was so silly of her to start a thread that could only serve to get herself in trouble...because I'm a naive idiot sometimes.
You know, I've been speding less and less time in the fora because I feel like I can't go there without being truthful which equates often being totally snarky about things. I'm sick to death of daisy throwing and cupcakes.
It's clear Admin are only silencing their critics when the trolls continue to post on a daily basis ... with no recourse.
If I didn't have 1000 business cards advertising my Etsy shop, I'd move it all to my domain tomorrow. It's going to have to be a very gradual thing, but I can't support this BS.
To the muted ... thanks for speaking up in truth and honesty. I admire your candor.
just bitchy ... what about this? What about what Stella said about having employees?!?
stellaloella says:
Aside from the part about no consignment/gallery/third-party representation, we do not currently have rules that dictate the business relationship between individuals in a collective.
From this http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5744358&page=2
or number 5744358 on page 2
Now Admin are clearly condradicting each other here.
As another poster on that thread, I applaud the common sense, directness, and honesty of those who were muted.
As for Etsy's willingness to silence honest and articulate critiques while allowing underhanded behind the scenes convos to continue unchecked .... for shame.
Of course, anyone who read the inarticulate "justification" for the thread's closure could, sadly, have predicted the results.
Oh, yeah, I'm pretty sure that thread got sherry to admin's attention fast, lol
That's when I knew that the investors want some interest on their 27M and won't care how they get it:
no stats (cause then everyone would be like, oh what, to hell with showcases and renewing, bump that!)
letting everybody and their mother with employees in. Yeah, having a fashion designer with employees on etsyfinds, like now one was going to notice.
Just come the hell out and say a spade is a spade and lose the effing tagline already.
Its ironic that the biggest cupcake eaters are the nastiest of the forum trolls, and that they're allowed to rampage unchecked through threads, being insulting, disruptive and rude while those that are actually trying to stand up for something and make Etsy a better site, are bitch slapped by Admin. What a crock of shit.
Seriously, I don't understand how ANYONE can justify this kind of behavior. I'm finding myself caring less and less about Etsy and its future, quite frankly.
Morgan (and anyone else looking for a backup plan), if you're looking for a quick solution, check out BigCartel.com, if you haven't already. You don't need to know ANY coding to get started.
You can customize your colors, arrange your products, have as many sections as you like, add up to 10 additional pages AND STATS (including top referring links, key word searches and view counts)!!!! Flat price of $20/month for up to 100 listings (you can get a smaller site for less money if you dont need that many). You can probably add more if you have the same items in different sizes or colors because you can have options for each product listing.
You can also have it under your own domain name. I'm at shop.ivydionne.com. Once this is done, I'm going to redesign my main portfolio site to match so it will look like one integrated site.
To those who've been muted, I salute you. If and when I go, I hope to do so in a blaze of glory.
It seems like there is a whole lotta just plain unethical behavior going on - not mistakes, not human error, not incompetence, just plain old unethical behavior.
Which perhaps should not be surprising with a founder who brags about lying and stealing. (What else would you call taking classes with a fake ID?)
And why aren't the people who are being paid to run the site required to be familiar with their own terms of service? Quoting only parts of it is sloppy at best, unethical at worst. And several featured sellers have had items made by sisters, by couples, by families.
I've been trying to stay pretty neutral in the forums, but I couldn't not reply in that thread, and have thus probably painted a big ole target on my forehead.
Ah well, need to stay out of the forums and at the worktable more anyway.
I don't read the etsy forums as much as I used to, but I recognize the muted ones as folks who wrote intelligent and helpful posts. There is simply no way Etsy admin can justify these mutes. Not that they care.
Concerning the unnamed animal troll, I have to wonder if this person is somehow connected with one of the investors. I say this because its function seems to be to prune Etsy of its intelligent sellers who have/might in future gain a reputation for telling it straight concerning business matters...and expect etsy to live up to its stated TOU. Prune as in encouraging them to leave the site, or at least stop posting in the forums. The nearly nonstop presence of the troll on the forums makes me wonder if they are being paid for their efforts.
Concerning the implied revision of the TOU to permit employees, Etsy has long permitted sellers to have them. Seriously, I have seen an online resume' from a person who included her stint as an employee of a shop currently open on Etsy (which I suppose sitll pays employees to handmake the dubious products it sells...products which are simply reproductions of decades old commercial designs using equipment from closed factories). Looks like Etsy is weaving a brand new WELCOME mat for resellers here. I mean, who else is working so tirelessly to establish a solid foothold on the site and obviously uses employee labor to design, make, photograph and sell their massproduced inventory?
LOL, Godot!
Bre will have to apply again next year.
Muted ones here- Twigs and Heather
We were pretty vocal as well about the direction Etsy has taken recently. We also put our two cents in about the absurd Bonnie and Clyde article. I know that we have been on the bad seed radar.
We got nabbed because of our comment telling Pussdaddy that it was time to go back to the kiddie table and let the grown ups talk for a while. We've been so annoyed by her for weeks now. But we know it was just the excuse they needed to mute us.
Luckily, we have a great business outside of Etsy. We love what we do and love our craftin' community. Etsy should be ashamed.
A few people have said that they hope the muted go find other places to sell. Sure sure, don't put all of your eggs in one basket, but I have hope upon hope that they stick around. Etsy has GOT to have brave souls like the ones who were muted. People need to say these things, need to argue these points, need to call out the idiots who are constantly stirring the pot in the forums. Don't leave because you get muted, stay and develop your plan of attack because you were muted.
Muted ones Twigs and Heather here-
We have been pretty vocal about the direction that Etsy has been going in. And we did put our two cents in about the absurd Bonnie and Clyde article. We definitely felt watched recently. But we were nabbed because of a comment to Pussdaddy. She has been annoying us for a while now and we told her just how immature we thought she was.
I guess it was just the excuse they needed to shut us up for a little while. It was worth it.
Pretty crazy to be involved in the "sweep." Maybe they are getting a bit nervous that we sellers actually know what we are talking about and that people are listening.
Now marymary says in the same thread on page 3 that employees are NOT allowed.
Stella says they ARE allowed.
WTF is going on over there!!??!!??
I think they are just fucking with people at this point.
I told you all once before in another post that Etsy has people specifically planted to stir up trouble to give them the proof they then use to mute certain people.
You poo-poo'd my comment, but you are now seeing it for yourself.
Be warned mutees, you will be watched carefully, baited incessantly and will wind up 'indefinitely' muted if you aren't careful.
I've only been at etsy for 6 months but I see the writing on the wall here...ya know I'm a cat lover but I noticed the wolf in cat's clothing a long time ago and just wondered why is this person so invested in the forums, always turning up, havin little hissy fits...I think I've got it now, and a couple of others too who shall of course remain unnamed, you know who you are. I think it's very obvious that etsy is trying to squish it's critics on some very important issues...I just wish they'd spend as much time getting rid of resellers as they do muting people. I've already started moving stuff elsewhere, might I suggest blujay.com, it is totally free, they use paypal and google checkout, they have forums, you are automically listed on froogle. I don't know if anything will sell there but it's not selling on etsy either so wtf.
Another messed up Etsy situation:
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5758024
This just squashed the f*** out of most of the optimism I had after the great CEO switcheroo.
Disgusted but not suprised by this latest move by Etsy to silence critics.
And as much as I've enjoyed the witty writing and investigations, where has all the bitching got us? Etsy is still an imcompetent site and getting worse everyday. The new CEO changed nothing. Storque articles regularly offend and disgust members and potential customers. What is there to hope for anymore? Really, it's time to beat them at their own game.
Yall remmeber that goddamn period reference? No trouble at all faced for starting a huge flame war.
The other troll that hasn't been mentioned is fucking TonyO. That bastard starts the most EVIL threads, does absolutely nothing but stir shit up, is responsible for countless locked threads and only has a feedback of 8, so he doesn't even BUY!
It truly blows my mind that the two of them get away with their shit for months on end now.
You know, some of the cupcakes (mentioned and not mentioned in this thread) are critical of Etsy too--not that I'm denying their troll-dom, but even some of the trolls are getting fed up (the scary thing is when one of them says things I agree with).
This is such a disheartening turn of events, and I just have to remind myself that everywhere I have ever, ever worked the "admin" was equally clueless and equally ill-suited for the job (and in some cases even more immoral, even criminal). Still, a change is always good for one; at least it takes a while to get to burnout level #5 again.
Good luck, muted warriors!
This isn't the list of muted that I would have expected to find! I am so confused about the logic behind so many decisions these days.
As someone who has enjoyed and been helped by the thoughtful comments by those muted, I definitely salute them. The fact that certain individuals have not been muted just makes me furious.
I just started selling on Etsy about a month ago, but I'm dubious about continuing on there. I've already started looking at web hosting services for building my own site. I don't want to be a wet rat on this sinking ship.
I've also started considering starting a forum similar to Etsy's where dissenting voices won't be silenced, and obvious trolls will be dealt with accordingly (I've been a moderator on various sites for ten years now, so I'm very good at spotting and taking care of trolls...).
"If sherry and pie were allegedly muted for publicly posting that they had received harassing convos, then why wasn't the sender of that convo muted when she started a whole thread announcing the same exact thing?"
-----------------------------------
Kind of odd...huh?
I just want to clarify that neither of us had ever sent that 'person' a convo or spoken about her on blogs (until now) or hearted her or left comments on her Flickr photos or any other kind of shit.
All we did was take her to task on the constant 'factpinion' and 'factasy' that she posts in the forums.
I've been on Etsy since Nov 06, I've locked horns with several people, even some I quite like and respect but this insect is a new breed. Oh what I wouldn't give for some bug spray.
But hey, a week off from the forums. I was sewing like the freakin' wind yesterday!
and, of course, I will give up my melting ice cream sandwiches to the worthy 5 muted warriors.
Oh and the irony is....BB didn't want people talking smack about her but through her own actions, now many more are.
Katie, I have approved your post, but this is fair warning to you. You get nasty on here, I will smack you down so fast and so hard your head will spin. The accused will have their say. In fact, I welcome Pie to have at it. But I know Pie will keep it civil.
*sigh*
I love Pie.........
I shall curse that moth larvae with the flies of a thousand camels, and the offspring of those flies of a thousand camels, and the offspring of the offspring of the flies of a thousand camels. We all know what types of piles flies prefer.
Uh, Katie...you should take that Etsy SAT because contacted someone via convo for anything other than a sale or genuine inquiring is against Etsy policy.
shit.
excuse me while I get my reading glasses out for bb's post.
Yay! A Kibbles curse!
As for those recently muted and for anyone else setting up a shop off-site, you might want to check this Squidoo site for former Etsy users: http://www.squidoo.com/formeretsysellers
Katie,
The line between your "factpinion" and fact is as wide as the Grand Canyon. Your little diatribe has more lies than I care to counter.
What you don't seem to care for is that you are exposed in the fora as a person who knows little about anything, but posts anyway.
Fact is, you threatened me via convo and I did not ever reply to you. I didn't know you had threatened Pie until I saw her post in the fora.
And when I wrote admin about your convo and never got a reply from them, I knew there was more going on than meets the eye.
Now, go away.
I won't directly address anyone, since they seem to be sensitive about that. But Katie (BrandedButterfly) threw an insult at me (by calling me a "boob") after making it seem like I was running around after them in the forums. I told them to grow up and get over themselves. For that I got a warning, and they say they did too; for the sake of fairness I hope they really were warned.
They say they've posted helpful things in the forums- I have too, which includes marketing advice, exclusive PR leads & opportunities, and business articles I've written. To me, the good I've contributed outweighs the snarky. I don't recall them giving sellers over $2500 worth of PR and marketing consultation (being a publicist is my profession), but hey, maybe they've done some very notable things for Etsy's community that we're all not aware of. What I do know is they are no angel, and can't even try to pretend they haven't said "nasty" things in the forums. I, a buyer got muted, but they have not, even though they've said some downright disrespectful things to other members.
As I always say- don't dish it if you can't take it, and you get the respect that you give. Dissing others by being passive-aggressive is no better than just being blunt.
oh, and I must say that I have become a fan of the kibbles curse...I was lurking in the thread where it was first conceived. just don't use it on me and we're cool.
Puss just came out of the closet, maybe Butterfly will too. What a dumbass.
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5252663
Just one more point to clarify.
I want to point out that I did not approach EtsyBitch about this. I was just going to keep it quiet, spend my week away from the forums and that would be that.
I told a handful of people.
This morning I woke up to a full email Inbox.
Butterfly, wrap it up
Well, isn 't this an interesting turn of events.
Be warned, 7 day mutees, the next step is indefinite (ie permanent) muting from the forums.
Etsy is paring down and ridding itself (either by scare tactics or permanent mutings) of anyone who can articulately and succinctly point out Etsy's faults. The boobs that remain flailing around in the forums making fools of themselves are not any real threat.
Thankfully, there are blogs such as this, and news blogs like the Consumerist who will take these issues to another level than the Etsy forums could ever go.
Keep making enemies of your shopkeepers, Etsy, and you're likely to have all your dirty undies flying high on the internet.
A big salute to the new "Etsy Five"
:)
Katie, you only seem to agree with the same 2 people. In fact, that's usually the whole basis of your posts. HattedCat says something and Katie posts "I agree"
that thread is from 2007, she came out a long time ago and frequently brags about her trolling and how many sites she's been banned from.
She's found a safe haven on Etsy.
BB says, "As for any other inference that I have been ugly, mean, nasty, or in any other way attacked any person on Etsy, that is a lie. I have not."
That certainly may be your impression, but that is exactly how you occur to me (and apparently others) in the forums. I have personally seen you be rude and disrespectful to those you disagree with in the forum, on several occasions. I have seen what would seem to be intentional bad behavior to try and get threads shut down.
Why would you send a personal convo to someone telling them not to address you anymore? That's like calling someone who you've never been on a date with and saying "I want to break up!"
It comes off as someone who is trying to stir up trouble more than someone who is trying to avoid it.
Looks like you succeeded, I'm just sorry for those who got caught in your fallout.
took the words right out of my mouth, ivydee. very well said.
BrandedButterfly, that was the most hypocritical steaming pile of bullshit I have ever read.
You are obnoxious, self-righteous, ignorant, arrogant, vacuous, pendantic, narrow-minded and predictably boring. And all of that is based on what you write in the forums. You have called people names, mocked them, put them down, insulted their opinions, and worst of all, told people they are not allowed to express or even have their opinions. You are the opposite of professional. You are the opposite of thoughtful. You are nothing more than an Etsy yes-man, spouting dogmatic bullshit that you have memorized but not understood. It is your whiplash reflex to defend Etsy and antagonize its critics and yet you don't have the slightest clue about the nature of the organization you preach the virtues of.
You are not only a detriment to the Etsy forums, but a detriment to intelligent conversation.
Thanks for participating.
Hey, my snarky comment got "nominilated"!
I'd like to thank the Academy ...
*grin*
malevolent, you took the words right out of my keyboard.
I'm amazed at the lack of self awareness she has that to think she's anything but.
Lol! the malevolent one, don't hold back, tell us how you really feel!
Reminds me of my namesake's theme song:
You're a mean one, Mr. Grinch.
You really are a heel.
You're as cuddly as a cactus,
You're as charming as an eel.
Mr. Grinch.
You're a three decker saurkraut and toadstool
sandwich
With arsenic sauce.
I am done with Etsy.
Still got my shop there and selling, but that's it. No more forum posting, no more ideas, no more help to the lovely newbies. Let them run wild and praise the Etsy gods, the wake-up will be rude and ugly.
Etsy is just another Ebay, we are already selling among mass crap and this won't change. I have lost hope, love and respect.
Sad, but true.
I have muted myself for an indefinite time, many voices of intelligence and reason don't speak over there today.
It's going to be a sad stupid cupcake bakery.
"BrandedButterfly, that was the most hypocritical steaming pile of bullshit I have ever read.
You are obnoxious, self-righteous, ignorant, arrogant, vacuous, pendantic, narrow-minded and predictably boring. And all of that is based on what you write in the forums. You have called people names, mocked them, put them down, insulted their opinions, and worst of all, told people they are not allowed to express or even have their opinions. You are the opposite of professional. You are the opposite of thoughtful. You are nothing more than an Etsy yes-man, spouting dogmatic bullshit that you have memorized but not understood. It is your whiplash reflex to defend Etsy and antagonize its critics and yet you don't have the slightest clue about the nature of the organization you preach the virtues of.
You are not only a detriment to the Etsy forums, but a detriment to intelligent conversation.
Thanks for participating."
_________________
ZOMG! Malevolent one!
I have siblings I have never met, perhaps you are one of them? lol We agree again. At this point you and I could have the biggest blow up arguement ever and still our "we agree" column would be fullest.
I agree completely. Also, you tend to make me giggle.
Imp
Branded says:
I do report every single post that takes a personal jab at me, and I will continue to do so...
-----------------
Are you kidding me? So you are an admitted tattletale? We have all been taken to task in the forums, I have been on for over a year and have never reported a fellow etsian, even when i have been outright insulted. I have also witnessed your nastiness in the forums, so that self righteous post of yours is blatant b.s.
I, too, don't know what to make of etsy any more. I thought when they hired a new 'leader', things would get better, guess not.
As for that cat, someone please call the pound. It is my personal opinion that she is buying inexpensive etsy merchandise so she can open up shop and resell at inflated prices (this is why she goes ballistic when someone suggests raising prices on etsy). She even admitted that she sometimes doesn't even open the packages she gets, just throws them in a room. Mark my words.
branded butterfly,
why not just apologize? straight-up admit you're wrong.
you'd look so much more respectable.
EB, I love you.
I am so glad that BB has posted here, even if I do have a raging headache after reading her post.
Katie, what an embarrassment you are to yourself.
You just don't get it, do you?
we stay out of all the threads with this nonsense in it, especially anything with feline tendencies. just do a basic google search and go through the pages and you'll see her identities and trolling ways. her lame thread and admissions arent really satisfying b/c we already knew what a complete and total troll cleansing all her threads need.
we've been out of all troll threads since late 07. its been just like heaven ever since (and business has been great).
Sometimes it is like somebody up there (admin utopia) is having a fucking good laugh at us all. this is the only thing that i can think of, considering the lack of logic displayed via these mutings.
like "hey guys, who should we nuke today, hehe?"
"duh, i dunno, man, say, the one in the red shirt?"
-----------
Cupcake fuckholes indeed.
bb, you seem to be carrying a great deal of baggage for not taking this personally. many times you have been a walking talking bitching contradiction, as in your post.
Here is the "factpinion" and "factasy" of which Pie speaks, clearly seen and laid out perfectly for all to see by BB.
BB, ditto to what the Malevolent one said. You have not one ounce of self-awareness and I have rarely seen so much bullshit in one post in my life.
Rob K. is that you? I hear you have tons of free time these days.
Moron.
When I first started reading BB's post I thought to myself "wow..I gotta give this lady some respect 'cause it takes a lot of balls to come here and lay yourself in the open like that" I haven't run into her that many times head-to-head in the forums, but I've seen her in action with others.
Then I kept reading and thought "Well..okay, some of this is starting to sound overboard and steam more of a holier than thou attitude."
Then I finished reading and decided that I think you shot yourself in the foot by coming here.
I'm going to do a sympathy self-muting for a week.
I wonder what would happen if all of the EB readers just said fuck it, and muted ourselves off the forums.
I would love to see the results of that!
Etsy Admins use the entire site for their own personal preferences, tastes, and very odd behavior toward sellers. Unethical, unbusinesslike, and truly embarrassing.
So, people who constantly turn threads into personal platforms for personal discussions between themselves and one or 2 or 3 other commenters start sounding just like Etsy Admins. It's all me me me -------------and that sure smells like those discussions belong somewhere OTHER than a business-sponsored discussion board.
It was a total runaway thread that got totally out of control, but most of it should have been done elsewhere. There's nothing worse than watching a fist fight between only a few people who think no one else is in the room. If you want a me me me platform, blog your blog. And slug it out in some semblance of privacy.
"So, people who constantly turn threads into personal platforms for personal discussions between themselves and one or 2 or 3 other commenters start sounding just like Etsy Admins. It's all me me me -------------and that sure smells like those discussions belong somewhere OTHER than a business-sponsored discussion board."
________________________
Ahh...this reminds me of someone else..
i agree with funny one, as susual
it gets to be a bit much and hopefully some folks will learn to self mute or simply bow out when the going gets bad b/c everyone looks bad at the end of it and from the outside.
if you smell a troll (often kitty litter is a sure sign) then just run
BB, You've got to be kidding! From the very first paragraph of your post here, nothing but lies.
One day this will all come back and bite you. HARD!
oooooooo, sigh!
I like that, like a "Mute-IN"
So sixties!
I would be so curious to see what the forums would be like without all EB readers posting!
Free Etsy!
This is the biggest load of crap I have seen yet.
Dictator Rob got ousted by Emperor Maria.
Power to the people!
Sigh said...
I'm going to do a sympathy self-muting for a week.
I wonder what would happen if all of the EB readers just said fuck it, and muted ourselves off the forums.
I would love to see the results of that!
____________
I'd do it, but no one would probably notice that I'm gone. :P
2more cents said...
the malevolent one said...
BrandedButterfly ... that was the most hypocritical steaming pile of bullshit I have ever read.
You are obnoxious, self-righteous, ignorant, arrogant, vacuous, pendantic, narrow-minded and predictably boring.
---------
Good description. I'd add "delusional" to the list.
---------------
---------------
Also, masochistic. She posted here to get some spanks.
I'll agree to a self-inflicted muting for the next 7 days. I may not decide to come back after that.
I have made some great friends in the Etsy fora ... but you know what happens when I go there lately? I get a shitty attitude that sucks my creative energy for hours if not an entire day. My poor DH is even privvy to some of the bull shit that has gone down (because he asks and cares ... this is my livlihood after all). He can't believe it, either.
You won't see me post in the forums ... at least not before next week Tuesday. Maybe never again.
yeah you right said...
we stay out of all the threads with this nonsense in it, especially anything with feline tendencies. just do a basic google search and go through the pages and you'll see her identities and trolling ways. her lame thread and admissions arent really satisfying b/c we already knew what a complete and total troll cleansing all her threads need.
we've been out of all troll threads since late 07. its been just like heaven ever since (and business has been great).
-----------------------------
(Has an AHA! moment.) Now that you mention it, I did encounter this person a few times in another forum (not related to online selling) that I read very rarely. I was kinda shocked to see the same trolling M.O. under a different userID but same avatar. Even if this is being done to fill too much empty time, at this level it approaches the point where the admins should consider muting someone intentionally harassing their customers, the sellers. I mean, Etsy is supposed to be a business site, not daycare for trolling housewives.
Dear Sellers (paychecks),
We don't care about you. We know it, and you know it. Face it.
Stop trying to make Etsy what you want it to be. You know Rob was blowing smoke out his ass with the tagline, he saw a niche, got a little publicity and ran with it.
There was never a mission. If there was, it hasn't changed. We are only interested in $$, now and forever.
Can we say fuck you again to you? We will, as much and as often and in any way possible.
The forums are our inside joke. There is a running ticker that picks up on certain keywords, and when one of us is bored we pop in with some c&p'd crap from the Terms Of Servitude, or tell you to fight nice like good little patsies.
Our planted stooges that are, incidentally, paid to derail your "contributory" threads, alert us when anti-Etsy propaganda may be missed by the tickerbot.
The flag this shop button? That deposits the email directly into a deleted account. That is why one of us slipped and said if you don't use it, if you flag by regular email that it doesn't count. We really don't give a rat's ass who is doing what here as long as the $$ roll in. If you email a complaint, by god, someone has to actually delete it by hand.
Oh, and all the other email address go into the delete account, though occasionally we'll read one for shits and giggles.
We don't know how else to tell you without telling you, your input means nothing. We don't want it. Should we mute a couple more of you so you get the message?
Meow.
I just don't understand the concept of trolling. I get what it is, I just don't understand why some do it. Are they that bored in their daily lives that they have to fill it with self inflicted drama? Is it some kind of sociology experiment? Or are they just that damn mean and find it amusing to inflame others and disrupt every thread they post on? I know when I see the fluttering bug, the stray cat or that damn teddy bear I know that the thread is going to go to hell in a handbasket.
I have read all the threads in which the nameless trolls and also the muted ones have posted. In those threads I don't post because if I did I'd be in the same boat as those who have been muted.
Will say this in here:
From what I have observed, these nameless trolls continually "bait" the outspoken, and by far the much more intelligent, knowledgable posters. I've seen these trolls also do the same thing to everyone else no matter in what thread the trolls post.
It's disheartening to see the much more intelligent posters get muted while the trolls are still on the loose.
Etsy Amin needs to get their heads out of their arses and look at who all are the real troublemakers. The trolls.
I read this earlier today and wish I had had time to comment then.
I can say that I am not surprised that people were muted, however, I am surprised at who was muted.
Soco has always been helpful in the forums, spoken the truth, and offered wonderful opportunities and advice. Buyers should never be muted unless they do something extreme. It's just bad business and idiotic on Etsy's part.
Sherry has been one of the nicest people to me and has always offered realistic and sound business advice in the forums. She speaks the truth and does it eloquently. She offers up wonderful ideas and pushes for change.
Morgan is always honest about how she feels and is always ready to defend her position.
Pie is well, Pie and we love her for it. I always enjoy her sarcasm and humor. She's extremely honest and calls people on their bullshit.
Twig is yet another person who pushes for positive change at Etsy. Wonderful ideas and never afraid to ask the hard questions.
I'm sorry to see you guys go even if it is just 7 days.
-----------
BB, I think you should take a step back and look at your posting history. You are continually rude and arrogant. If someone's opinion doesn't match yours then you treat them as if they are wrong and have no idea what they are talking about.
I know because I've already had my run in with you. It was brief but you were extremely rude.
If you want others to respect your opinion then I suggest you try treating others with respect.
And as for reporting each time someone says something mean to you... this isn't junior high.
I've been talked about, called out, disrespected, called names and I have never reported anyone.
Anyways, I salute the 5 muted and hope to see you guys back soon.
p.s.
We were just about to fire Danielle.
Until you told us to. So we decided to slog her into a different department.
Cause we'll be damned if we ever do anything you want us to.
Nya nya meow.
"Our vision is to build a new economy and present a better choice:
Buy, Sell, and Live Handmade." Riiiiiiight. Just some food for thought there.
I almost totally self muted over a year ago. Visiting the Etsy Forums is like visiting a foreign country these days...but without the good, food, good company, and good times.
I just don't understand the concept of trolling. I get what it is, I just don't understand why some do it.
__________________
Having been a stalking victim of a non-Etsy forum troll, I can tell you that they generally have psychiatric problems that cannot be fixed by trying to reason with them, tell them off, or report them or ban them (because they will always find a way back). The only thing that can be done is to keep yourself under the radar and hope they don't notice you've posted. Or quit posting altogether. And pray that the stress of constantly being followed on the internet won't kill you.
This is really sad. I enjoy chatting with many people in the Etsy fora, including the fabulous five. Oddly enough, the forum posters I enjoy the most are the old Etsy 5 and the new Etsy 5! There are always a few trolls who will ruin a good thing for everybody and even trying to defend yourself, you can end up in some deep crap.
Please, out of the respect of the newly banned, do not refer to them at the new etsy 5.
p.s.
Please, oh malevolent one, add bombastic and verbose to your earlier post as well as delusional as someone else mentioned.
Honestly, I keep think Rob K. or some other etsy-koolaid-drinking-assimilated-drone is BB. It's too much, too OTT and too bizarre.
So I call "shill" on BB.
Be careful who you engage. You never know who's who on the internet.
*head spins*
just bitchy said. . .
So I call "shill" on BB.
------------------
So Question 1. for BB, do you wear coral nailpolish?
I predict that once the present crusaders (and I mean that in a good way) are eradicated, and rainbows and cupcakes and head banging topics such as "I just sold something, what do I do next" and "Where do you buy your (insert supply of the day)?" rule the forums, the trolls will have served their purpose and themselves be muted indefinitely.
The forum is now filled with a new wave of wide eyed groupies and should give admin a few months of reprieve before the serious issues raise their ugly heads once again and unrest ripples through the forums. And we'll see mutings - the sequel.
Etsy can't answer the burning questions, they can't give us straight answers because their rules are so convoluted and poorly worded. Admin contradict each other on so many issues it's a wonder how they can quote anyone an answer in the forums with a straight face.
The users know more about what phrase is used in which part of the FAQs, TOU and D&D than anyone in admin does.
They have that site going in so many different directions, they are never going to perfect any of them, and sadly, the ecommerce part will be the last they attempt.
I've all but abandoned my shop, it[s still there, but I don't advertise and I make a few sales here and there, but my heart is just not into it anymore. It's a big joke.
You're right there, windys. They can mute all the people they like -- the problems with Etsy will continue to exist (in fact they'll grow). That will radicalize a whole new crop of Etsians who will voice dissent leading to more mutings ...
The only thing that can change this is if Etsy gets its act together. I am no longer hopeful that this can be done.
It feels like a dying fish at Etsy. Everyone was gasping for breath, hoping beyond hope things would progress in a positive direction.
Sadly, the putrid smell of defeat permeates not only the forums there, but EB itself.
I for one am tired of fighting the good fight.
glub glub.
I've been watching for a long time and a new bunch always starts asking the same hard questions.
I've seen cheerleaders one day wake up and start wondering in the forums why it's been x amount of time and things are still the same.
All etsy has to do is keep muting and banning and the last batch of questioners will be disappeared and a new batch will emerge.
They clearly do not care.
While I had high hopes for Maria, I'm now pretty sure she was just brought in to dress it up and put lipstick on the pig and get etsy ready for sale so the investors get paid back.
Honestly, if they would just say that I would be fine with it. The truth would be refreshing.
The charade they continue to play is insulting.
Etsy, go blow smoke up the asses of more investors and leave sellers out of it.
You suck.
Please, out of the respect of the newly banned, do not refer to them at the new etsy 5.
_____________
Sorry. :-) Just trying to quickly clarify who is who. I should have said "all those muted". ;-)
I just wanted to pop in here and clarify that the five people listed in the article are muted temporarily, not banned, just in case anyone is confused.
On another note, we're hearing that some people's comments aren't getting through (as in, not getting through to us so that we can publish them).
If you've posted a comment that stayed within our guidelines and it's not showing up, please let us know. Also keep in mind that we have to sleep and eat and do stuff, so please be patient.
How about:
Esty V (like in Shakespeare)
The Etsy Five: Mach II
Not that I didn't see this coming a mile away, it's still sad to see 5 of my favorite forum posters muted. Unfortunately, for every intelligent, professional, talented artist that gets disgusted and leaves Etsy, there will be 10 bright eyed newbies to relist, renew and kiss admin butt.
If you're looking for a seriously awesome website, check out my blog post on Volusion.com
http://rivkasmomcom.blogspot.com/
2008/07/web-host-of-my-dreams.html
You'll have to cut and paste the url, because this format tends to cut the addresses short for some reason.
Am I reading correctly that BB is 38 years old with grown children? Based on her posts, I thought she was much younger.
The dissenting voices have really been silenced over at Etsy.
________________________
This is exactly how I feel here. What good is a blog to express how we feel if you only allow comments to be published that agree with YOU??
dang! i leave for a day and this happens... i know it's not permanent, but some of my faves [tho you don't know it] are on this list.
EB, i apologize for my wide eye'd hopes that maria was bringing in a new era.
i was wrong.
my heart... it's breaking. i had a lot of hope for etsy.
honest.
i'm an optimist.
i liked the tag line, i liked the supposed ideal... but, every day, i realize that the only MO is ...
profits.
*sigh*
Thanks for that link to BluJay!
Looks like my eggs are shortly going to be in several different baskets.
Silenced on EB, the difference is that EB is a private blog and not a business. Etsy is a business that we pay to receive a service.
I would not say they only publish comments that agree with them, they published BB's comment (novel?) and she doesn't agree with them.
Also I don't think EB has ever muted or banned anyone, I am not even sure that blogger has that feature.
It's pretty clear that Etsy is a place that is not serious about craft or the crafter behind it.
The people muted are the ones that they should be embracing. If they had just thought about the big picture when it comes to the craft world and its community, Etsy could have been an amazing thing for artists and crafters for a long, long time.
Thanks everyone for your comments.
Twigs and Heather
Twigs and Heather
I don't post much on the forums but I do read a lot. Sadly one of the muted has attacked me personally in the past- and NO I am not BB. Actually I am a very relaxed,down to earth person. I guess what I am trying to say is that in my experience one of these muted sellers has a history of being not very kind- at least that is my impression after being on Etsy going on 2 years.
Maybe she did not deserve the muting for this particular incident but I did not appreciate her calling me *disgusting* on the forums several months ago when I asked a thought provoking question.
The difference, silenced on eb, and let me try to make this clear, is that this is the blog of 11 people. It's not your blog. It provides some of us with an outlet for our frustration, since the forums have been cleansed. Some of us also hope to put enough pressure on Etsy to force some kind of change for the better. We want to keep the pressure on the company, and to make them either live up to their stated ideals or admit they no longer have any ideals.
This is a very personal blog (as personal as something edited by eleven people can be).
We've never pretended to be anything else.
Etsy has. Etsy has a "community". Etsy sold us all the dream of making our livings doing our arts and crafts, something we're passionate about. Etsy keeps telling us that they appreciate our comments, and then shuts up any dissent in one way or another. Etsy is lying to people.
I encourage you to start your own blog, where you're most welcome to moderate my comments, if you see fit.
Take care.
That shit post made me go drink cofee. Which I haven't drunk for over a year.
Please. Save it, cause no one with any sense here gives a damn. And if the sentence about checking out the shops about who posted here was supposed to send fear rippling anybody, please.
Feel free to look as much as you want. I've been in threads with you and the other troll and believe me, I'm not running from either of you. Etsy could shut my shit today, and I couldn't care, as I already have a shop on bigcartel and would just transfer my shit. If I wanted to buy something I could, regardless,as people I know have accounts there to buy.
I like to say it as it is. My livelihood doesn't depend on etsy,and I feel for those who do. Consider it a wake-up call. They don't want the wide-eyed newbies to see what the real deal is but they, too, will soon start to see the truth.
I'm not posting anymore on the forums, it's a ig waste of time, looking at the "why no sales, how do I, help!" I laugh mirthlessly. I don't work for etsy, do y'all own shit.
Now, I'm REALLY pissed. BB is really NOT muted in the forums?!?!?!!
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5758693
Please. Let her not be muted. Who wants to include her with the other nice people who were?
Besides, I like seeing all that's going to happen whenever she posts something, like now.......
Please. Let her not be muted. Who wants to include her with the other nice people who were?
Besides, I like seeing all that's going to happen whenever she posts something, like now.......
---
You do realize that following someone around and basically terrorizing them whenever they post is creepy, right? I don't like BB. I can easily see why others don't like BB. But following someone around a forum and making them look like a crazy person isn't the solution. Please don't do this.
Yes--and exactly what is she trying to get at with that post? I've already posted my questions and several others have named their suspicions outright.
I wasn't suggesting that anyone should harass her. I just included the link as proof of her not being muted... NOT so people could go jump in the thread... though if EB readers WANT to jump in the thread, there's not a whole lot I can do about it.
With that new thread this morning...and with her on THIS forum last night saying how she's making note and visiting all of the shops on this thread...I think she's the one who may be thinking of harrassing people further, not the other way around...
I saw that thread this morning as a disguised attempt of finding out how to get away with setting up a sock puppet buying account to inconvenience sellers with non-payment.
I am biting my tongue to point of bleeding. Last night I took a vow (mostly to myself) to adhere to a self-imposed muting. This is absolutely crazy. Without the muted in the fora, where is the voice of reason? Just as Etsy wants it, I'm sure.
I'm a reformed cheerleader. It seriously did not take me long to understand why there were a select few who spoke out consistantly against the site. After I took off my rose-colored-glasses, it wasn't hard to see the writing on the wall.
How sad, really.
Wishing there was a better place for us to all meet and chat than in the Etsy fora ... I will miss the friends I've made.
Peace
My two cents on people who post all the time in an contrary, argumentative, or baiting fashion: they have a need to cause conflict for some reason.
Responding to them or engaging them in any meaningful way just gives them what they want. Following them around the forums gives them what they want. Completely ignoring their posts is much more effective (and, although very difficult, not impossible).
Good morning, Katie.
You are reading this, right.
I think the people in the forums have caught on to you.
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5758693
I saw that thread this morning as a disguised attempt of finding out how to get away with setting up a sock puppet buying account to inconvenience sellers with non-payment.
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Or wondering if someone could do the same to her? Talking trash about her in her own thread is not cool. It's pretty obvious people want to bring her down over there, but until she's somehow cheated you out of money, ruining her reputation on etsy, where she does business, is not cool.
please, do not come in here trying to admonish others. You are not the moderator of this blog. So, STFU. She reaps what she sows.
The dissenting voices have really been silenced over at Etsy.
________________________
This is exactly how I feel here. What good is a blog to express how we feel if you only allow comments to be published that agree with YOU??
Ding ding ding! We have a winner. But you won't know that, likely, because this comment is destined to be 'lost'.
The fact that some commenters can continue to post, even though they were active in the locked thread, confirms that there are favorites and there are "plants."
What purpose this serves is Etsy's secret, but it could mean that it frees up Admin time to write more odd "articles" about odd (and buyer-turn-off) subjects.
Or maybe Admins got bored with the forums (which are even more outer planet than Etsy is) and are spending most of their time reading Etsy Bitch!
I am!
"It's pretty obvious people want to bring her down over there, but until she's somehow cheated you out of money, ruining her reputation on etsy, where she does business, is not cool."
_________________
She's bringing herself down. With her constant rudeness on the forums and her blatant abuse of other sellers by sending threatening convos. Questioning one's actions is not "ruining a reputation".
The only one who can ruin a business reputation is themselves, no matter what anyone else says about them.
Heck, there we go again.
BB posts, everyone chimes in. Same with PD.
Don't feed them and they will get bored and go away.
I am so tired of them given more importance than they deserve.
Just read this thread:
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5758693
And I find the OP to be quite scary. I am a buyer-only (lots of us lurk on the forums) and posts like this make me glad there is a PayPal interface between me and certain Etsy sellers.
I would never buy from anyone who stated they wanted "more verified information" about me. There is not enough buyer privacy on Etsy as it is.
Incorrect, we allow many comments that disagree with us. We just don't put up with cupcakes and trolls.
Incorrect, we allow many comments that disagree with us. We just don't put up with cupcakes and trolls.
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That is complete crap. My posts were not trollish nor cupcake-esque. They were civil, and had much to do with the topic at hand. You just didn't like them.
Please. People who subscribe to follow up emails can see everything you say and your looking a little foolish at this point.
And excuse me but BB has made it quite clear that she respects everyones opinions, even ones in disagreement with her.
Are people now not allowed to address her at all? Is she royalty?
Hey, we've never promised to be a community. We don't have to publish any comments at all. Don't like it? You can sit on it and twirl. Private blog = our rules. Can't play nice? You can take a flying leap.
But you can't ever say we don't allow dissenting comments. Its completely untrue.
...and for that, no more comments from you will be published, because you're hellbent on derailing the post.
Just read this thread:
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5758693
And I find the OP to be quite scary. I am a buyer-only (lots of us lurk on the forums) and posts like this make me glad there is a PayPal interface between me and certain Etsy sellers.
--
I've had more than my share of creepy buyers who I suspected were up to no good. Weird addresses or names that didn't seem right, etc. Two of those times the buyers went on to immediately (minutes after purchasing) leave me scathing feedback based on their dislike of me. 99.9% of buyers are awesome. Sometimes you get one that's a little nutty. BB may be asking because she wants to set up her own anonymous account, but she may be asking because she's afraid (and I can see why) that others might do it to her. It's a pretty valid question, IF she's being sincere, which is uncertain.
KreatedbyKarina said...
With that new thread this morning...and with her on THIS forum last night saying how she's making note and visiting all of the shops on this thread...I think she's the one who may be thinking of harrassing people further, not the other way around...
I saw that thread this morning as a disguised attempt of finding out how to get away with setting up a sock puppet buying account to inconvenience sellers with non-payment.
__________
I am thinking the very same thing. I didn't post in that thread, but read the entire thing.
Thanks to whoever it was that provided the link to Blujay. With all we've learned from Etsy, such as how to bring in your own customers, we should all do fine no matter where we go.
One way the trolls stay online is to purchase from admin shops. Just check out the feedback from a certain admin for a certain feline. Perhaps the newly muted should try this to see if it would help grease the wheels of the etsy machinery...
unfortunately said...
99.9% of buyers are awesome. Sometimes you get one that's a little nutty. BB may be asking because she wants to set up her own anonymous account, but she may be asking because she's afraid (and I can see why) that others might do it to her. It's a pretty valid question, IF she's being sincere, which is uncertain.
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I completely understand that (there are creepy sellers too, unfortunately, even though 99% of them are great, so buyers have to be careful too). The problem I have with it the thread is the way the question was framed and the fact that it was posted publically like that. A convo would have given her the answer.
I've read far worse things about buyers-only on the Etsy forums - this one just touched a nerve with me and I would not want this person to have any of my personal information. Maybe irrational - but, as I said, buyers have to be careful too.
Eclipse says:
"Silenced on EB, the difference is that EB is a private blog and not a business. Etsy is a business that we pay to receive a service."
Actually, the forums and convos on Etsy are a free service to anyone who has an e-mail address to sign up for an account. Just like blogger. Not a paid service, and those muted from the forums are not removed from the paid part of the site.
The real difference is that EB serves only to massage the egos of its founders, and so anything that harshes that buzz is shut down. They only publish "dissenting" views they know will be ripped apart by their unquestioning followers (for which they suspend the "no direct attacks on etsy users" rule.)
Which is their right, of course, but it does indicate their priorities.
Are my comments not being added as well for some reason? I had previously responded to Please when she insinuated I was "ruining BB's reputation" by questioning why she wanted the info in her thread
Oops.. Sorry Karina.. I missed that one.. No you're not being muted.
that's okay itchy. You dont have to read here if you don't like it.
please said...
Please. Let her not be muted. Who wants to include her with the other nice people who were?
Besides, I like seeing all that's going to happen whenever she posts something, like now.......
---
You do realize that following someone around and basically terrorizing them whenever they post is creepy, right? I don't like BB. I can easily see why others don't like BB. But following someone around a forum and making them look like a crazy person isn't the solution. Please don't do this.
**********************************
Speaking for myself, I'm not terrorizing anyone. I have enough to do and have a life. She's the one that's putting herself out-there, so I'm just saying it's interesting to watch.
I have the right to go, read and post where I please. I'm not going to stay out of a thread because of someone whose views/attitudes I disagree with. No one owns a goddamn thread on etsy.
Even people who hasn't seen this blog yet are creeped out by what she asked. Come on.
yeah you right said...
One way the trolls stay online is to purchase from admin shops. Just check out the feedback from a certain admin for a certain feline. Perhaps the newly muted should try this to see if it would help grease the wheels of the etsy machinery...
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That is disgusting!! This deserves more investigation!
I'll try again.
The Mission Statement is the only real issue for me.
Everything else is secondary.
Real paranoia aside, I can't say that the few trolls are part of any conspiracy. It takes all kinds and you can't dig 'em all.
I see the real issue here: Etsy Staff and Etsy sellers are at a disconnect: They are busy doing things that we don't understand=== and vice verse.
People who have salaried jobs tend to do what they are told. I figure they are busy and have no time to decide if what they do or don't do is a good idea. They have their orders, like anyone with a salaried position.
The people who make major decisions about Etsy are the ones who are even more abstracted from the people who sell, buy, or follow orders there. It's understandable to an extent-- but here we come back to the Mission Statement. Three years is plenty of time to decide where you are going and find out how to get there, I would think. That is the job of those few people who tell everybody else what to do.
Trolls aside-- (I think discussing them is a bit obsessive, too), the real issue that got us all into trouble and will probably continue to is the disconnect between Staff and Sellers re: the Mission Statement.
To us, leaving a store that sells 2008 Olympic coin sets up for three days is a travesty. To Staff, it's one of several tasks on the list. If they don't get everything on the list done, they still quit on time and go home to their families. We, on the other hand, never go home. To us, three days is terrible damage to the M.S.; to them it's three days.
(You can turn off a lot of buyers in three days)
The disconnect. I am sure that the Etsy Staff considers me a total asshole, and they would be right from their perspective. I just wanted to get my point across somehow-- there aren't too many ways. Those coins were the final straw to me, to Staff they were just another little detail.
I know this is long and I am sorry. I had to come in and make one last statement in order to make sure that my opinions are heard-- they won't get heard anyplace else!
BB has an easy enough time of ruining her own reputation. No one can ruin someone's reputation no matter what they say---it's how the person in question responds and acts afterwards that ruins their own reputation.
Questioning why someone requires information is not "ruining someone's rep". SAYING as a fact what someone is doing is much different.
Between BB earlier stating that she was going to check out everyone's shops on this post, and then her thread this morning about private buyer identites DOES lead people to speculate about her intentions behind the question.
yeah you right said...
One way the trolls stay online is to purchase from admin shops. Just check out the feedback from a certain admin for a certain feline. Perhaps the newly muted should try this to see if it would help grease the wheels of the etsy machinery...
_______
That is disgusting!! This deserves more investigation!
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interesting theory, and I'm sure it may very well be true. but I'm not giving a red ass cent to an admin. I refuse to donate to their cupcake funds.
on another note, why the hell do they allow admin to have shops? it clearly creates a conflict of interest.
If anyone knows what purpose the Etsy Forums have today, I sure would like to know, since it has turned into something akin to a personal blog for personal performances. Or, I'll scratch your eyes out--------take your pick.
EB not only has a focus, it provides a refreshing alternative for those who are muted off and on (and isn't THAT a weird concept!)and for subjects that are taboo on Etsy. (Or, everything but "Wow! I just made my first sale! Now what do I do?")
Venom and sniping, unfortunately, is just about all you find in the Etsy Forums, and the mud slingers seem to be very happy with what they've created.
And Admins are happy too. While the yakkity yakkity goes on for 60 pages or so, Etsy is making a bigger mess of the site than they did last week.
Planned chaos = the new and improved Etsy.
massage the egos of the founders?
doesnt add up to much, considering they are anonymous, right? then again, you cant beat an anonymous massage. It's kinda kinky ;)
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but seriously, my own take on any type of forum troll is to ignore them. freeze them out right there, in the posts that they troll around in.
imagine if EVERYONE ignored PD in a forum thread, she would flounder pretty fast.
but i also know that trolls will only follow the easy to rattle, those who will rise to their crap.
sad fact.
Unenforced rules = lack of respect for all rules
Lack of respect for all rules = anarchy
Mission Statement should be job #1. That and the Big Rules about what is and is not listable.
Those rules are not enforced = I don't respect any rules! Which is why I am posting here.
I need to get to work on my website, y'all.
(Oh, and it isn't who she buys from, it's the quantity. Who would buy that much stuff without having to resell it??)
MorganSilk said:
Oh, and it isn't who she buys from, it's the quantity. Who would buy that much stuff without having to resell it??
Someone who is bored, upset, lonely, or whatever, and acts this out by compulsive buying. Sadly, I know people who do the same with Home Shopping Network and brick and mortar shopping too. Some of them have piles of unopened bags and boxes in their houses - and some of them have gone into big credit card debt because of this problem.
Compulsive shoppers don't resell - just accumulate.
The Funny One said...
Etsy is making a bigger mess of the site than they did last week.
Planned chaos = the new and improved Etsy.
=====
Am I just overly suspicious, or is anyone else thinking 'sabotage'?
Things seem to have got worse, not better, since Maria took over.
The original staff (being charitable here) may resent the investors and the end of the indie dream (being uncharitable - now they may have to do some work!)
But if the place goes to hell in a handcart before the investors plan gets going, and all the money in the world can't save it or it's reputation - would they then leave clutching their payoff and a smug sense of vindication?
Maybe I'm clutching at straws and hoping that Etsy does have a plan, even a warped one, rather than accept that they really are that incompetant, useless and biased...
I know when I see the fluttering bug, the stray cat or that damn teddy bear I know that the thread is going to go to hell in a handbasket.
----------------
My 3rd nominee for quote of the week.
Morgansilk-
I am right with you.
It has always been the mission statement for us as well. We take being artists and crafters really seriously and that is why we were muted. I am sure of it. Our comment to Pussdaddy was such a lame excuse. I have no respect for them at all anymore.
Twigs and Heather
I wonder too, if she resells..she's mentioned on another thread how she's rented out mall kiosks before.
Caethes-
you are not alone. That theory has been discussed also.
It would explain the Storque articles in trying cast a negative light on the site.
When new management takes over, are they really gonna need 63 people doing cupcakes, hammocks, whatever?
WyomingK has a point. She's most likely hording the stuff. Which is a form of mental illness. It would not be the least bit surprising.
Sad, lonely, irrational, emotional, I would say that sums it up. She doesn't come off as a happy person. She only finds joy in being praised for her bad behavior and cat graphics. She needs the validation.
Trolls are typically not the happiest people. They disassociate the human factor of the internet and reduce it to nothing more than words on a screen.
Trolls have no feeling or remorse because they hate themselves and they get a rise out of making people miserable.
Eventually people catch on in wide spectrum and the troll moves on. If they aren't banned first.
If you ignore a troll it will always go away because it feeds on attention.
Thanks Andy - I must have missed previous discussions, or they became lost in all the fluff over here!
A lot of what's going on strikes me as the same level as teenagers playing dumb, P-A behaviour designed to get a rise out of folk...
And as for the hoarder? I feel sorry for her. Have done since I saw a post where she sat in her room with her unopened packages and wept. Can't deny she's an irritating PITA - but I wouldn't want to be in the state she's in.
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