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Oh, how the battle lines have been drawn! Its time to pull a chair up and award the following people with valor awards.
Let us not forget the battles they fought, some won and some lost, but all fought valiantly. Their battle armor no doubt has damage, but they still move forward in hopes of making Etsy a better place for all.
Jessica, the seller who came forward admitting her mistake. You are alright in our book for coming clean.
quirke, for making sure that the lampwork glass artists were heard. That was a most excellent battle.
antb, for smacking down an overly smug know-it-all in the forums. It was brilliant.
Windysdesigns, for always telling it like it is and making sure that Admin is held accountable. We have heard that she has been muted indefinitely. *plays butt trumpet TAPS*
SherryTruitt, GreenMamba and SocoCreative, for bringing the glaringly apparent flaws in the current methods of communication from Etsy staff and that sellers pay for this service. That, and lighting a fire under their butts over the views issue.
Here are your latest recipients of valor awards. Ladies and gents, wear it loud, wear it proud, but never forget!
or this overlay for your current avatar 
Wednesday, June 18, 2008
Awards for the Valorous
Posted by The Sneaky One at 9:00 PM
Tagged: award for valor, Etsy, mute salute
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68 Comments:
*EB Salute!*
It was Windy that got muted?! Crap. That's not good.
I always like her posts.
I always found her way too self-righteous. No I'm not talking about her war with etsy.
I like Windy's posts too. Damn.
It's time to grow a thicker skin, marymary. It's disingenuous to ask for communication and then mute people because they communicate questions or concerns that you find unpleasant or difficult to answer.
Windy getting muted really makes me lose respect for Mary. If you are going to do customer service get a thicker skin.
If she can't handle it maybe they should put her to work in the Etsy Labs making cutesy stuff and giggling.
I missed the Jessica thing, what happened there?
Jessica came clean on Etsy: Your Source For Big Box Retail.
{{{hugs Windys}}
Solidarity, sister! Welcome to Banned Camp.
I really don't like the forum banning thing. I've been a mod on a few different online forums, some public, some private, and I've only seen people banned for really horrendous stuff (stalking, scary abusive posts, crappy porn spam, stuff like that).
It feels like slapping a naughty child's hand. :(
And there have been some people muted whose posts always made me furious, too - but I'd rather hear everyone's voice, even if I don't always like what they say.
I do always like Windy's and Green's posts. They're so based in....oh, what's the word I'm looking for?....Um, R-E-A-L-I-T-Y.
Yes, that's the word.
stonesoupjewelry, I agree completely.
Quite apart from the ethical side of it, it's also horrendously bad in PR terms to do something like that to someone who is critical of the organisation.
Green got banned, too?
Windys got muted? Holy crap.
That's just wrong.
link to the jessica thing, please
I am really horrified that Windys got muted or banned or whatever. She wasn't making the Etsy gaffes, just exposing them *in an effort* to make Etsy a better place for ALL. Etsy really *should* be ashamed now - - This is like having a Child Emperor running an Empire and making really *serious* *bad* mistakes!
I agree with Christina - - The Admin working the forums really need to learn that disagreement does NOT equal disrespect. Criticism does NOT mean disrespect. Windys should NOT have been reprimanded for reminding Etsy that referring people to a post that was MONTHS old and not updated was pretty bad customer service...
*SIGH*
What?! No Windys?! That stinks!
First off, I have to say that I am truly honored to have my bitching acknowledged here on Etsy Bitch (I see you guys as the bitchinest of the bitchy).
Secondly, I'm damn disappointed that Wendy was muted. Etsy says they want our input- if they only want sugar-coated ass kissing responses, they need to say so. What admin did to her, we call a "bitch move" where I'm from (and pulling a bitch move is not a good thing).
It's not going to stop me from calling it like I see it, and I hope it doesn't stop others from speaking their minds either.
Oh, by the way I'm SocoCreative, but go by Marie.
Did all those people get muted or just Windy?
I agree with yeah, i'm anon, she can be very self righteous.
Funny thing is, one of her last posts was a freak out about the view tallies in the "communication" thread and then what! RD announces the view tallies are fixed! wtf?
I wish my balls were big enough (well, if I had balls) to go post in mary's Communication Rah Rah thread that banning critics is not a good way to foster good communication.
But I am not that bold.
I would, though, suggest that we all adopt her Grinch avatar but replace the flower in her hair with a gag across her mouth and post on the forums with it....
Muted, as in banned from the forums forever?
Makes me want to start a revolution. Or at least a forum thread on the subject.
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Seriously, whatever happened to freedom of fucking speech?
Oh, man. I also appreciated how Windy told it like it was. Isn't not permanent, is it?
protest avatars....interesting.
Can someone link to the Windys thing?
I really don't understand Etsy sometimes, wait, most of the time.
what-the-frack, from what I know just Wendy (I'm not muted).
there's a thread that hints at what's going on here, though I can't say how long before it gets locked:
http://tinyurl.com/6dqut4
There's just no good reason for Windys to be muted. If admin can't take the heat, they shouldn't enter the kitchen!
didn't take too long for that thread to get closed down, narie
Mary just closed a thread with this sentence in it:
"As of yet the details of this policy aren't something we have decided to publicly publish anywhere on the site."
Publicly publish????
I am dying here!
"As of yet the details of this policy aren't something we have decided to publicly publish anywhere on the site."
Methinks this means: We want to be able to arbitrarily mute anyone at any time for any reason.
Who got called out by antb?
Because there are no rules, Imp. There are just little Etsy gods.
That makes no sense - - "We won't publish publicly what will get you banned from this site"??????
I am floored here. How can anyone think it is a good idea to NOT display what the lines are before being banned????????? Or muted????
Sonovabitch, where's my Windy's?!
This quote here:
"Again, as long as you can participate in the Etsy forums within the guidelines, you will be A OK.
Mary"
This means as long as you do what we say, and say what we want to hear, you won't be muted.
What a crock.
Are you fucking kidding me that MissMaryContrary starts a mofo how-can-we-communication-better thread and then tells us that Etsy would rather not "publicly publish" rules about forum communication?
"As of yet the details of this policy aren't something we have decided to publicly publish anywhere on the site."
I'm pretty speechless at that one....To quote an oft used forum refrain:
"Wow, just wow!"
The main issue is that these etsy employees are incapable of separating themselves from the entity.
Windys called BS on a statement made by a person. Windys did not attack the person.
I was going to add marymary to the "matt, stella, robwhite - they have their acts together" list today. I'm glad I didn't.
She's just one more of the immature, clueless mob who thinks they have power they don't.
This is why customer service TRAINING is so important.
Etsy, as an organization, is so inept. One more bogus organization that gets $27 million to fuck up while good people/businesses/organizations struggle. Welcome to business in America.
I'm sick of all of it.
I love how artisan is all for banning people who are rude and disrespectful considering he is extremely rude in 90% of the posts he makes.
*eyeroll* said...
I love how artisan is all for banning people who are rude and disrespectful considering he is extremely rude in 90% of the posts he makes.
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I know, right?!
Where's the damn justice in that? The lesson here is you can be an asshat as long as you are defending admin.
BeaG and artisan run around freely without consequences.
Many people use the forums as their personal blog without consequences.
No, the rules are NOT applied fairly across the board.
daniellexo ran amok for a week or two abusing people on the forums and in convos when she was (and I quote) "head of the forums."
No, as far as I can see there are no rules, the forums are not run fairly and WhereTF is the new COO?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!
Whoah! Windys did not do anything to warrant a permanent muting! That is too extreme. Is this just for that "BS" comment? I was afraid she might get muted for a few days for that but not permanently, that is such a huge overreaction.
So much for their promises that being critical of the site won't get you punished. :(
So much for improved communication.
I am SO the boss of you! said...
"The lesson here is you can be an asshat as long as you are defending admin."
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True.
That theory is further proven by the survival of a certain crochet shop. She's the worst.
Although I haven't seen her lately; is she off licking her wounds from earlier in the week, or could she possibly be muted?
One could hope.
The aforementioned crochet shop owner posted in RD's unveiling thread today. She always "signs" her posts so it's easy to find threads she's posted in with the search. I wonder what the motivation is for that.
Oh, and the one person who had two different shops who posts as though she is two different people. She's just fine pretending she's two different people.
And they allowed her to harass another seller endlessly and impunge them with no consequences and then booted the person being harassed!
Unbelievable.
And RD can be as rude as he wants to be and it's no big deal.
I think RD is a huge hairy asshat.
There, I said it.
He needs a full body shave and I stand by that.
Ok- so now it's gotten ugly - Windy's was the real life and truth on esty. I laughed and learned as a result of her posts - isn't that was it's spoz to be all about?
Windy's - if you're out there - your talents are wasted on a silly site, you could be the next Ralph Nader of ecommerce! I am for the first time truly emotional via etsy - not as a result of all the silly x's and o's (strangely now missing from many of admins' posts) but because it won't ever be the same without you. I'll never watch the "Grinch" without thinking of you again. Here's a double to you - may your heart grow two sizes tonight....:)
and if you haven't been muted .. let's share a slice of the roast beast.
"When I spoke earlier about internal policy, I was speaking about the rules we follow together as a company internally when given rules from the published guidelines are broken. We have an internal policy to keep our decisions consistent and fair across the board when making any sort of consequential actions. The reason I even mention the fact that we follow an internal policy at all is to clear up the speculation and misconceptions that we do not follow any rules when it comes to any form of consequences for forum behaviors. We have the policy to hold ourselves accountable and we take great care in any sort of decisions that are made."
What a load of crap! Anyone need to fertilize their garden?
Yes, Marymary, quite ordinary, YOU ARE FULL OF CRAP.
If you were smarter you would have had the good sense to be embarrassed when you typed that.
"We have the policy to hold ourselves accountable"
Gag me. No, clear the room! I'm about to vomit.
I always feel like when a thread gets too heated, Etsy sends in a mole to call someone out, or break a rule, so they can lock the thread and shut everyone up. But I'm suspicious like that.
Windy got muted because she was stirring a notion. She was gaining ground, and people were starting to notice. Out here, we call her a truth movement leader. In there, they call her TROUBLE.
Windy's was a vocal critic of Etsy. But Etsy says they do not punish people for criticizing Etsy. They say criticism is allowed. So if we beleive that, then we must look for another reason Windy's got banned. Hmmm, what could it be?
Oh that's right. She said a naughty word. tsk tsk.
surely she must be the only one to ever utter that word?
Forums search results for bullshit (789) matches
and that's just the UNlocked threads!
so if Etsy is fair and consistent, then all 789 of these resulted in permanent forum mutings?
Right?
No, because that would be insane. You can't ban 789 people for such a stupid reason. But then why can you ban even one person for such a stupid reason? Oh, because this time they said it to an admin. And people are allowed to say bullshit to other users, but not to admins.
Permanently banning someone just because they said "bullshit" is ridiculous. Temporary muting, yeah, I can accept that. Maybe it's over the line, but it's not serious enough for permanent muting. Is there anyone who beleives Etsy would permanently ban you just for saying bullshit to another member? You might get a warning, at worst. But say it to an admin and suddenly it's a hanging offense!
It should not matter who you say a word to, and people should not be punished more harshly when an admin is involved.
Simone says:
Quite apart from the ethical side of it, it's also horrendously bad in PR terms to do something like that to someone who is critical of the organisation.
____________________________
I couldn't agree more. I have much more respect for companies that allow their critics to speak freely. Of course, these same companies probably have ironclad (published) policies and rules, and excellent customer service, so they know that their good track record is a solid leg to stand on.
I'm a (relatively) intelligent adult, and I like to hear BOTH sides of the story so that I can make my own decisions. Not watered-down, giggly PR fluff.
When Etsy silences a critic, it says much more about Etsy than it does about the person criticizing the company.
"To quote an oft used forum refrain:
"Wow, just wow!""
________________________
I do tend to use that often in the forum, yes. So often it is just... so fitting.
"I love how artisan is all for banning people who are rude and disrespectful considering he is extremely rude in 90% of the posts he makes."
_______________________________
OMG, he is the biggest freaking tool!
Can someone give a link to the thread where MaryMary said this:
"When I spoke earlier about internal policy, I was speaking about the rules we follow together as a company internally when given rules from the published guidelines are broken. We have an internal policy to keep our decisions consistent and fair across the board when making any sort of consequential actions. The reason I even mention the fact that we follow an internal policy at all is to clear up the speculation and misconceptions that we do not follow any rules when it comes to any form of consequences for forum behaviors. We have the policy to hold ourselves accountable and we take great care in any sort of decisions that are made."
It of course doesn't show up in the forum search since it must have been closed - damn I hate that sneaky bit of censorship that Etsy thinks is so clever and denies is censorship at all.
I didn't see it on ClosedThreads yet or maybe I just missed it.
Adama Selene -
Here you go . . . http://snipurl.com/2l3ao
I'm getting pretty nauseated with MaryMary's, "We're listening to you, we really, truly, honest-to-goodness, supercalafraja are" posts.
They threw hurricane DXO in there for a spell so she could seek and destroy....mainly the latter. Then they go to the other extreme and it's a barrage of lovey-dovey posts that are all talk and no action.
Next thing, it's another banning because someone was too ballsy for their taste.
Etsy, you both suck and blow.
As I watch this unfold I have to say again that robwhite is a gem.
Some people are suited to customer service and some are not.
Robwhite has the right temperament and a healthy dose of humility, doesn't let his ego get in the way and is gracious, understanding and empathetic. He communicates clearly and I never doubt that his intentions are good even if I disagree with him.
Wait....what?
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"When I spoke earlier about internal policy, I was speaking about the rules we follow together as a company internally when given rules from the published guidelines are broken. We have an internal policy to keep our decisions consistent and fair across the board when making any sort of consequential actions. The reason I even mention the fact that we follow an internal policy at all is to clear up the speculation and misconceptions that we do not follow any rules when it comes to any form of consequences for forum behaviors. We have the policy to hold ourselves accountable and we take great care in any sort of decisions that are made."
Rob White is no saint. He might have more patience than that bitch Mary and he may write eloquent thread closing posts but don't forget that he is a big part of the "internal community" and when people are banned from the forums, it is with his approval as well.
I didn't say he was a saint. My point was the he, matt and stella are the ONLY etsy people who seems to have any idea how to deal with people in a customer service situation.
He's employed by etsy so yes, he does have to abide by the etsy system and work within their fucked up framework. He does it well.
The whole system needs major fixing from the ground up. At least three of their employees aren't condescending, mean, spiteful, vengeful and inept.
If they could find more employees who have a clue what they are doing etsy might get fixed. They could also provide training to the employees they already have. But right now it's 57-3 and that's not good odds.
I have hesitated to re-open my Etsy shop since my 8 month hiatus after I was falsely accused and then hastily perma-banned with absolutely no reason except " disrupting the community ".
I am waiting for Etsy to show me a few reasons that it would be "FUN" again to sell on Etsy.
I hardly post in the forums, even though I now can.
Members I could name can bash other members REPEATEDLY and might SOMETIMES get a slap on the hand, but don't you ever dare to speak out against Etsy or you will be Perma-banned !!! :P
Etsy just keeps giving me more and more reason NOT to re-open my shop.
As Etsy keeps removing and silencing all the intelligent and fun people, the forums have devolved into crude, rude, nasty and desperate for attention threads that turn my stomach even more than Rokali does :P
Yet another intelligent critic of etsy, silenced.
Awww. Mary's speaking softly but carrying a BIG ASS STICK! How hip! How groundbreaking!
Yeah, her stick is probably made of cardboard and has felted swimmys all over it
Etsy has always had a policy of disciplinary action for people who speak out against them.
just before the first set of forum etiquette guidelines were introduced (April 2007) i was warned for being sarcastic about etsy in a forum post (and subsequently muted and threatened with banning for publicising the email with my warning and reasoning behind it).
since then, Etsy has always maintained that they will not punish people who are critical of the site
ho bloody ho
It's interesting they are now saying that people are muted "indefinitely".
When I and the other Etsy 5 were muted, they used the word "permanently". Despite the finality of that word, I never gave up hope and never stopped trying to get a fair hearing, which eventually I did get. The word "indefinitely" somehow feels a bit more hopeful. I hope this means there is some appeals process for Windys, and I hope she doesn't have to wait 8 months to get justice.
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5564076&page=7
trippy...windy did you ask to be banned? say it isn't so... you will be missed.
I want my EstyBitch overlay. I earned it. But I don't know how, even tho I followed the link.
Is this like posting a lame question in the forums? It sounds like it, I know.
Imagine how hard it is for me to work my own website with this level of 'expertise'. If anyone wants to help me, they can email or convo me.....
Morgan
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