Friday, June 27, 2008

This is Why Supervisors Exist

From the Bitches Auxiliary:

Once again, Etsy has let loose with a forum post directed to old fogies, old bats, old ladies, hags, little old ladies — otherwise pigeonholed as Etsy to be "traditional crafters" and people who make, well, products worthy to be sold to the public online! You know, like, ARTISANS.

Anyone at Etsy heard of supervision and management? How about Public Relations? How about proofing an extremely long and insulting Admin forum post BEFORE it gets posted? How about running it by the "Does this reflect the Etsy Image?" manager?

Didn't Etsy learn its lesson several months ago when the furor resulted in a blast in the Consumerist? Or is it a terminally short attention span?

If you didn't get your old hag dander up with the original post, you have to read the "apology" with additional snide remarks by — well, the same Admin group that were exposed the last time!

Another fine example of lack of thought, lack of integrity, and the widening gap between Etsy the company and Etsy the Sellers.

Pie in the face (or faces) does not do this one justice.

51 Comments:

impetuous said...

Ouch?
What kind of response is that to put out to the public?
Where is their babysitter? Is there an adult in the office?

wristeroni said...

Impetuous -
Apparently not. Rokali must be at home hiding under his evil eye quilts or playing with his kidnapped Swimmies.

I think Little Drummer Lady Maria ditched Etsy and is auditioning to replace Meg White as the drummer for White Stripes.

impetuous said...

wisteroni, I am sure of it!

Everyone knows the Etsy Swimmy is out and juvenile and the Twitter Fail Wail is where it's at:
http://failwhale.com/

Get out from under those evil eye blankets Rokali the indie movement is passing you by.

The Disgruntled One said...

When daniellexo posted the comment "Ouch!" in that thread, I rolled my eyes in disbelief. When I think of the fear that that bullying woman spread during her brief tenure as Forum Conductor, I just couldn't believe my eyes.

And Vanessa's "apology" was pretty lame. Again, she claims it was all a lighthearted post on her part. I've heard that far too many times from Admin -- they make a really stupid, craven comment, people take umbrage to it, and then they say, "Hey, I meant it as humor".

Idiots.

And the person in that thread who posted that Vanessa needs a "hug"? What the fuck are people thinking? She's an employee of a large company -- if she fucks up, she doesn't need a hug, she needs a bollocking from her bosses.

Christ on a crutch.

MajorFuckingEtsyBurnout said...

Maybe daniellexo believes she is the supervisor? Someone said she started sending out convos to people who posted their disgust in the thread, telling them to be nice. ??? REALLY professional~Way to go again Etsy!

Maybe they can post next about looking for some crafters from down south. I can see it now:

Hi Guys!

We're looking for some fabulous Etsy crafters down south! Isn't that exciting?? Can you do the work for me cuz I'm like busy and stuff, haha LOL. Okay, great!! As long as you have no teeth, are morbidly obese, have a toothpick hanging out of your maw, use the word ya'll & ain't in every sentence, wear overalls (which you so quaintly call dungarees), drive a pickup, dropped out of school in the 8th grade, think schlitz is a food group, and live with yer pappy and memaw, we at Etsy.com would love to feature YOU! Whether you've been busy whittling handmade toothpicks out of maple trees in between shots of moonshine and milking your cows, or slapping together rag rugs from old bits of sweaty t-shirts, we want YOU! So come on now, we're generously offering YOU this opportunity! We'd LOOOOVE to hear from you! Wait, do they have phones down south? Whatever, send it by carrier pigeon kay?
xoxoxoxooxoxoxoxoxox

huh said...

Is there an adult in the office?
________________________

Bite your tongue impetuous one. Adults are neither fun nor cute, and definitely not hip.

impetuous said...

Well. I guess the next time one of my customers complains I'll just say, ouch!

Hip this, etsy! said...

The apology WAS lame. "I was trying to poke fun at admin"? Please. If that's the case, post something like "Believe it or not, it's not just about the Brooklyn aesthetic! We want to show that etsy is home to all kinds of crafters: young and old, urban and rural, etc. We'll be in Kansas and would love to meet local etsians there to videotape!"

Also, what makes something a "traditional" craft? Aren't all crafts traditional? Knitting has had a resurgence lately and may be considered "hip" at the moment, but it's been around for a long time. "Hip" is not an objective term: one could argue that in a world awash with pleated hobo bags, octopus necklaces and scrabble tile pendants, crochet doilies are what's truly "hip" and "indie."

But I am looking forward to their post asking to showcase international sellers: "Bonjour French crafters! Put down the red wine and stinky cheese -- we want to see your striped shirts, mime art and baguette sculptures! Germans, show us your beer steins and lederhosen! Thais, show us your...oops, never mind. Everyone knows handmade doesn't exist in Asia: everything's mass produced by Wal-Mart!

shannon said...

what's 'schlitz'?

also, not to be rude, but if you don't know tact, avoid the public... This is why no big companies have me as customer service rep.

Meredith said...

Looks like someone needs to take a business writing course at the local community college! The first thing they teach you is to say what you mean, say it honestly, and not try to sound cute or "playful."

And then there are rules about apologies too. "Misread" should never have appeared in that "apology" because that's blaming the people who got offended. And I'm sure they'd say to write that message on page 3, 4, or 5 and not page 10! She should've never waited that long to apologize, but I do give her "bonus points" for apologizing...admin. aren't usually prone to admitting they're wrong.

Can you imagine if any of us artisans wrote in our descriptions that such and such item is only for a certain group of people because if fits the stereotype? Admin. would have it deleted or changed in seconds!

WindysDesigns said...

You know, I was actually ready to cut Vanessa some slack. We all make mistakes and come off sounding less intelligent than we really are, maybe less tolerant or even more ignorant.

There is no real leadership, no one to set the example. It's not entirely her fault. Every single one of the staff only has the experience they come in with, and often it's nothing more than being a crafter, hip or someone else's friend of relative. Real job and life experience in the field they are currently working in doesn't seem very apparent for much of them.

I'm part of the demographic she is looking for, though I don't really do traditional crafting if she's looking for 'country crafts', and when I read her post, I just kind of shook my head with a half smile because I knew she put her foot in it real good. I wasn't offended I guess because I chalk it up to youth and inexperience. You can't talk intelligently about something you know nothing about. I[m sure if I were to try and put a call out to trendy, urban hipsters and their traditional crafts, I would probably sound like an old geeser.

Anyone who deals with the public should probably take a public speaking class along with a Dale Carnegie class and learn how to perform amongst peoples from all walks of life. Learn the tricks in talking to people so that you don't inadvertently insult them, or worse.

Vanessa's post was just an example of the site's lack of leadership and any kind of formal training when it comes to anything business related. Public speaking, customer service...believe it or not there are guides out there to help you establish your own for your own company.

and Danielle,,,,ever see Animal House when Bluto crams his face full of food, and his cheeks are all puffed out and he slams them together like squeezing a zit? Yeah, that's the visual I get every time I see her.

WindysDesigns said...

I wish Fabiola was still around to kick them young'uns a new asshole!

dont taze me bro said...

since when did everyone jump on the "mature aged" PC bandwagon?

save the frustration for when it really counts or you're going to become a "unhip" miserable old crank!

staceyjean said...

i love this site... and i just wanted to interject with:

i grew up with my moms crochet doilies all over the damn place. under anything that sat on a table. when i was a teen, i'd hide them from her.

now, i really appreciate them.

i'm going to get her to open a shop before anyone else does so she can claim rights!

:P

staceyjean said...

oh maaan, windy, that would be all shades of awesome, on so many levels, if you were the only person willing to do it.

i can almost imagine how that'd go.


"you won't find her in the forums, because... well, WE BANNED HER!! but check this out... she's hella talented!"

they'd say hella, even tho they're from the east coast because hella is totally trendy in california.

I am SO the boss of you! said...

and Danielle,,,,ever see Animal House when Bluto crams his face full of food, and his cheeks are all puffed out and he slams them together like squeezing a zit? Yeah, that's the visual I get every time I see her.
-----------
She is an ugly person inside and out. Serious.

jodie nicholson said...

First up, I wish they would just muzzle DXO. She is a public relations nightmare with zero professionalism.

As for the OP by Vanessa and the, um, apology. Is there anything Etsy gets right the first time? If they hired professionals there would be so many cock ups.

jodie nicholson said...

Doh, typo...there WOULDN'T be so many cock ups.

The Disgruntled One said...

It doesn't surprise me to hear that daniellexo has been convoing people to tell them to be nice.

She's a danger, that one. To other people, not to herself, apparently, since Etsy lets her go her merry way without any supervision.

Same goes for Vanessa. I don't believe there *are* any supervisors, only untrained hipsters left to run wild.

jodie nicholson said...

OUCH

eclipse said...

Danielle needs to be convo muted. I can't beleive she's doing that again after being reprimanded for it last time.

p.s. "Hella" is trendy?
I am 43 and we said "hella" in junior high.

justbitchy said...

Anyone who got a convo from DXO should report it to abuse@etsy.com and also forward it directly to Matt.

She's a menace.

lessa said...

Quite some time ago, sellers were asking if admin could have either color coded badges or the name of the department they worked in so we would know who to contact, if the person answering our question was part of the group that was making those decisions. A ranking so we would know if they were the low man or the top dog. So if the low man couldn't give the answer we knew who to go to next in the chain.

We were told they don't like to follow traditional corporate structure. They didn't like the hierarchy. I was left with the impression that its the founders and everyone else.

Smarty Pants said...

This whole issue is so ridiculous. We are being played the fool by Etsy, no question.
Well, it's working. I am not relisting or adding to my shop, haven't in weeks and don't intend to.
Ouch.
You wanna feel ouch? Feel the ouch of hundreds of sellers relocating. Then, Etsy can be the place to buy all things made by folks who don't require fair treatment. Etsy: the place to buy supplies and learn to use them. Etsy: your place for bullshit.

musthavemissedit said...

Admin's comments generally tend to get under my skin, but the orginal post did not bother me in the least. I guess if my items were hip, indie, or alt - it might give me a pause. However, they are not - so I get it.

What is wrong with giving lifetime crafters a bit of attention? I think it is great that they want to do a feature on crafts and techniques that have been passed down for generations or learned over a life-time.

impetuous said...

lessa says:
"We were told they don't like to follow traditional corporate structure. They didn't like the hierarchy. I was left with the impression that its the founders and everyone else."
_______________

This is the thing that pisses me off THE MOST.
Excuse me, but, does anyone think the site was built as a re-listing demon by ACCIDENT?
It is TOTALLY hypocritical to brush off traditional corporate structure to save money on advertising, site monitoring and customer service while USING pure capitalism to line your own pockets.

The sellers, the heart of the site, are pitted against each other because they NEED to relist in order to stay visible. Etsy gets PAID because of the competition they create between it's sellers. *Hack!*

Sorry but the whole fuckin thing makes me want to vomit.

jodie nicholson said...

Musthavemissedit, that's not the reason people are pissed at what the OP wrote.

Giving more attention to 'older' crafters/artists is great. Speaking about them as if they are sub-standard is not.

WindysDesigns said...

They'll be sorry when one of those backwoods artists makes them pull down their pants and squeal like a pig. They might even get branded if they are a blacksmith.

patti haskins said...

looks like marymary is trying one more time with almost the same post:
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5687261

The Gypsy Jewels said...

LMAO! Mary closed that thread with:
This thread seems to be straying off topic and striking a nerve with many of you that is distracting from the original intent of this thread.

We really appreciate your feedback and reactions to the way we present ideas to the Community and as Vanessa pointed out, we apologize for any feelings that might have been hurt or any offense that might have been taken by the style of the original post in this thread.

I am going to close this thread to prevent further off topic discussion and open a new one where the OP can stay on track. We invite you to join us in the new discussion if you know anyone in the area that might enjoy being highlighted in a video portrait by the Storque:

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5687261

And starts a new one with a potentially just as offending post...

wristeroni said...

Wow, MaryMary's "new" post has been up for almost an hour . . . and the silence is deafening. No one is touching hers.

I doubt that this is on purpose. It probably just got buried; but it would be sweet if it was viewed as a protest.

impetuous said...

Once again, rather than collecting all entries and weeding through them themselves for what they are looking for specifically, or use their own faulty search, they dump this project on sellers.

This is not a friendly call out, it's taking a crap in the forums and asking everyone to clean it up.

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etsyaddict said...

Since they'de like to lump all us older, traditional craft types into one derogatory-sounding lump I'll be glad to do the same for them.

The admin at etsy are so, so young. And by young, I mean "have no class, are unexperienced, and are so completely immature in every way."

qurgg said...

Too bad they can't pull Grandma Moses' moldering corpse out of the grave, get her signed up with an etsy account and then interview her, ala Tony Perkins in Psycho.

Look out Vanessa, your etsy is showing.

Elizabeth said...

still no responses to Marymary...

Heather said...

Does marymary have no other purpose other than to close threads? I really can't stand her smiley mug. She looks like she'd be really, really annoying.

forum rubbernecker said...

I can't believe they let these people verbally vomit all over the fora like this, haven't they ever heard of having public statements approved by higher ups? The only midwestern crafter (a stained glass artist) I knew was my aunt, now deceased. But she was raised in NYC, and went to school in Italy, and had a genius IQ, so hey Vanessa, I guess maybe they're not all backwoods schmucks. Vanessa really went to MIT? Say it ain't so. What's next, a casting call for southern rednecks? Iffen so, me 'n Pa's gonna make us some handpainted moonshine jugs.

Lucy said...

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that living in the midwest meant that I can only produce "Americana"-type crafts. And its insulting that Admin were so "suprised" that there were nontraditional shops out there.
Fuck you Etsy. Not everyone can live in New York on someone else's buck and pass time knitting legwarmers.

Alienate your customers much??

hip this, etsy! said...

lucy, I completely agree with you -- Vanessa's implied surprise at finding "nontraditional" crafters in the boring ol' backwards midwest was appalling. What's next? Shock that people of other ethnic groups aren't scary?

Perhaps we should rustle up some smart professionals in Brooklyn and express our own shock -- who knew?!

lucy said...

hip this!,
We should make ourselves an ethanol powered, quilted car with tacky Americana decorations and have a road trip to NYC to show off our Midwestern tastes.

I'm fed up. And I feel really smug about MaryMary's thread not having any responses.

And DXO can suck an egg.

impetuous said...

hip, this, etsy said:
"Perhaps we should rustle up some smart professionals in Brooklyn and express our own shock -- who knew?!"
______

Seriously!!!

bead fanatic said...

Holy crap! I'm in shock.

I did love this post, though (it made me laugh out loud...like a little slap on the hand for the OP):

"It was not an implication, it was an assumption, and it was quite apparent in the construction of the sentence that "young," "hip," "indie," and "alt," were being directly contrasted with "older" and "traditional."

That's "hip" as in the slang term that has been around for, oh, about 60 years now. And "indie" as in what we were calling the music scene out in the PNW about -oooh - 20 or 25 years ago, when Nirvana was still playing house parties. And "alt" as in that whole category of usenet groups from, hmm, must be over 20 years ago now, which introduced the term into the modern language back when the internets were still being browsed in ASCII.

Believe it or not, kids, you didn't invent hip, indie or alt. Was this "older" etsy seller offended? No. Not any more offended than I was when my son told me he's already learned everything he needs to know."

The Disgruntled One said...

I agree, beadfanatic, that was a brilliant post.

peacekeeper redux said...

WindysDesigns said...

They'll be sorry when one of those backwoods artists makes them pull down their pants and squeal like a pig. They might even get branded if they are a blacksmith.
June 28, 2008 10:49 AM

This posting made me laugh out loud for the first time in weeks, thanks so much.

When I read the posting in the Storque about RK and his Evil Eye fiber art piece I realized he is seriously disturbed, I already knew that from having personal back and forth emails between us, but that sealed the deal. I am starting to find the entire Etsy mess so bad it is funny. I am one of the old hags RK directly accused of being bitter. I was as sweet as honey in my attempts to convince him to advertise to attract buyers.

I have been selling crafts all over the world since 1967. Dot com and landlord greed in the SF Bay Area trashed my studio to smithereens, (bogus eviction) and there are no longer Indie boutiques here, the very reason tourists swarm here. Selling on Etsy is my only option. I belonged to another internet gallery in 1998-200 called Art Mecca, they folded up their tent and vanished without a warning , over night, ripping off thousands of artists. I suspect Etsy is just as evil as Art Mecca was.

staceyjean said...

eclipse
p.s. "Hella" is trendy?
I am 43 and we said "hella" in junior high.

____________________

:)

yeh, it's really trendy, and it got worse when no doubt released "hella good" and now people actually take the time to fight over who started it... nor cal, or so cal.

i say... who fucking cares? i sure as hella don't.

:P

The Kinky One said...

Anonymous' at 11:41 and 12:00, please read the comment guidelines above the comment box. You cannot post without a name - any name. That way everyone can keep track of who is saying what without our brains exploding.

Thanks!

j. hart photography said...

i just have to laugh about mary's post. it WOULD be cool if it was a protest but i think that it honestly just doesn't have an answer. there just ISN'T anyone that fits their description. even when they word it nicely.

and when i read the original post... my jaw dropped. i've reduced my inventory on etsy by 30 prints (down to 9). i just don't think i want to be affiliated with them anymore but i've got too much stuff going on this summer to be able to make my own site. once that is done i may drop my etsy page altogether.

Grace said...

Wow, what a train wreck.

Next, Etsy tours Singapore, Hong Kong and Seoul, looking for those independent, non sweatshop designers that keep getting featured on the front page.

Stay tuned!

=) said...

i was so impressed... this thread made it to page 10 before someone had to mention renewing.


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