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They ignored the outrage over "you got bad touched" cards - and just let it stay on site even defending it behind the first amendment.
But the detractors did not go and crawl off, and outrage grew, and it has now made national press. This was on Headline News - I would have loved to see Rob's face when he heard about this:
Etsy, have you learned yet that ignoring your users is BAD for you? That doing what you want is not doing what is right? Just because it's not offensive to you, doesn't mean it's not offensive. You are all old enough in Brooklyn to understand "damage control" and that you can't ignore things of they snowball on you. This is one fucking huge snowball. I only hope it take a couple of you hipster assholes out with it as it rolls by.
Saturday, January 8, 2011
Etsy Fucked Up Again
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64 Comments:
Sandahl here,
No surprise, E has never cared about anything, aside from the .20.
Also not a surprise is Kalin going back on his word about lifting mutes and such when the new forum is rolled out. Vanessa was kind enough to get an answer from above last night. "No".
Also NO appeals process.
Just another lie!
Apparently hipsters think rape is funny. Quite frankly, I'm an asshole, but I'm amazed that the fucktards on staff haven't plastered these shitty cards all over the front page & the Finds. Typically, when anyone gets pissed about something (like resellers) — like petulant idiot children — etsy just features it more.
Cowls, owls, foxes, fingerless gloves, rape cards — that's so Etsy.
In the event that this isn't clear: that shop should be gone, gone, gone.
Great. Etsy is described as "a place for struggling artists" as well as a destination for offensive crap.
Having a shop there has become too big a liability for my reputation.
It's time to close before I get lumped in with the shit Etsy brand.
Yes Etsy fucked up again and once again is getting more press time. They probably don't care, any press is good press to them.
Maybe in a few weeks, they'll take it down and saying they were reacting quickly if the noise gets too loud but sadly this probably won't hurt them nor do they care unless it really affects their bottom line.
They have done so many stupid things along the way, it is almost too many to count. Does anyone even remember the nazi flag in 2009? How many F'ups can one company have?
I keep getting the feeling that the image for this card was traced (digital or otherwise) from either a stock photo or another source. It seems oddly familiar and I can't figure out why.
True freedom of speech means protecting even the most vile among us.
kelleyanne here -
» rokali Rob Kalin
OH: So how long have you been your own god for?
9 Sep
He appears to have a god complex anyway if you check out his tweets...nice dangling preposition too!
Not sure if Etsy will even listen, but there is a petition on Change.org:
http://womensrights.change.org/blog/view/etsy_sells_rape_congratulations_cards
They have 15,029 Signatures so far.
Good Lord, that's some great publicity.
Nice work, Etsy! Getting out there in the press really IS better than advertising. Nice work.
AND all of you dickwits who were defending this shit in the forums. The immaturity and bullying behavior certain people show in the forums sure is interesting.
And Etsy didn't even return a comment about the article.... nice.
Great job making everyone involved with Etsy look bad, you idiots. I feel like closing my shop if shit like this is going to happen.
This is a surprise? when Etsy hasn't listened to 99.999% of their non-fave sellers for 6 years? They're suddenly going to listen to complaints and flags? Public comments? I'd love to see the buyers-complaints file at Etsy, because it probably makes up the stuffing for their juvenile "phone room" accessories!
Etsy is so blatantly arrogant that they won't give this a 2nd thought because hundreds of thousands of would be sellers keep forking over tons of money for nothing!
As long as "sellers" keep stoking this scam, the bigger the damage to real handmade and real people who make real handmade.
It's time to flip the bird at Etsy and spread the word, get off, get away, don't visit, don't spend.
The morals and logic Etsy are so far from normal, that they probably don't even care. Etsy probably thinks 'this will really boost our brand with edgy, hip people! Just the kind we want to attract!' because they're too stupid (as they've shown over and over again) to notice that their biggest market is middle aged women. Not fucking 22 year old hipster douches.
Dear admins-I know you lurk and read here. You have really crossed the line allowing this shop to continue to operate in violation of the TOU's of your site. But that's right, you only apply those when somebody disagrees with you and is loud about it. You all make me sick and I have no regrets about being banned and muted from that sewer of a place. Oh, wait, you lazy idiots never did close my buyer account there, so I will be back one day, mouthing off and trying to rattle your conscience a bit. Wait, you hipsters don't have those. Maybe I can make some of your loyal sellers see the light. If you had ever known somebody who had been raped or had a special needs child, you might see how offensive this garbage is. I'm happy misery is worth .20 a pop to you. Keep showing your true colors more and more, you are doing a swell job of it.
When did Etsy turn into such a FREAK shop? I found a bloody tampon catnip toy in one shop and now these disgusting cards! Sick.
OMG...I'm stunned and I probably shouldn't be. Most importantly, my time frrame for shutting my etsy shop has been greatly shortened.
etsy using the first ammendment as an excuse is rediculous, especially with the way they mute or shut down anyone who says anything they don't like in any way on their site, as innocuous and truthful as it may be.
And now, not only is this seller still there, but they are getting lots of sales from all the free publicity. Wonderful
I am appalled at Etsy, but even MORE appalled at the sellers who are saying the cards are wrong, but then saying the seller with these offensive cards has every right to be on Etsy with them.
No, they don't have a right when it is outright bullying and being offensive.
So more and more, anything goes on Etsy.
Bullies are welcome, Resellers are welcome, any and all offensive materials are welcome.
BRAVO Etsy for creating such a warm community! What a joke! This is just ONE big Etsy FAIL!
Anyone else notice that the first two feedbacks on this sellers account come from an ETSY EMPLOYEE?
Yes, I'm sure they're all sitting in the office, wringing their hands and wondering how to respond in the appropriate fashion. Right.
How many times do they have to they have to say "Screw. You." before sellers just decide to leave? I left in '09.
Hummm... said...
I keep getting the feeling that the image for this card was traced (digital or otherwise) from either a stock photo or another source. It seems oddly familiar and I can't figure out why.
--------------------------
That's the worst thing about this moron's cards... they're mostly sourced from 'joke' pictures on the internet. The 'count to potato' one, for instance, shows up in places like 4chan. Really tasteful places like 4chan. Hmm, I should go to /b/ and get some people from there to invade the etsy forums maybe...
I never post here, and haven't in recent months in the forums. Frankly, after reading quite a lot, I have to say that Etsy is being ridiculous by hiding behind the first amendment.
Personally, I'm not offended by the cards. They are really bad artwork and not clever in the least. The novelty of them will fade amongst those bizarre enough to buy them and the little business will completely die off. What is absurd about hiding behind the First Amendment is that Etsy is a private company and can do what it wants. They don't have to provide freedom of speech, they can say, "No, soulless jerk, f*** off" and ban the person for life without much question from anyone. They have done this to sellers before, why not now? Well, bad press is better than no press and even the bad press Etsy gets drives traffic to the site, so they let it happen. It is a young staff at Etsy head quarters, and perhaps one day they will learn what is appropriate and what is not, but for now I would say it is very plain that Etsy welcomes the bad with the good in a sad self-serving way.
The first amendment excuse does not hold up. This is not some cutting edge "art", this is offensive, misogynistic, disgusting, discriminatory, misanthropic, in poor taste etc. It shows us that Etsy has no ethical standards what so ever. Funny they make lots of money off women but seem to think things like this are ok.
I am pretty disgusted with Etsy for thinking these cards are okay, but even more disgusted with the sellers on the forums who support this shop. If they really felt that strongly about supporting a man who makes money off of rape jokes, they'd put that in their shop so their customers could see it.
Instead they're whining in the forums over people boycotting Etsy. Even though they're supporting those items being sold on Etsy! If anyone besides the seller should be affected by the boycott, it should be the sellers who support this garbage. Not the rest of us who hate this crap and are now being associated with it against our will. Artfire is looking better and better every day.
Sorry, but this is a slippery slope, and once they start taking down "offensive" things, the mature sellers will be the next to go. Be careful what you wish for.
Whatever. There's no 'slippery slope' (which is taught in logic classes as a classic fallacy BTW). Etsy can take down this truly offensive crap and that has nothing to do with your dumb penis soap or whatever.
Improved the loser on question said 'Etsy corporate has been so wonderful through all of this', and of course some loser admin bought stuff from this POS. They're probably hipster buddies. This guy in NYC? Wouldn't surprise me.
I think as word of this spreads more and more, it will impact Etsy overall. I'm sure some of the CNN affiliates will pick up on it.
At church this morning, it was the topic of the sermon. We were asked to please not support Etsy's corporate greed. Not a call for a boycott, just a plea to remember that a part of the money we spend there goes to a corporation that is condoning hatred and vilification.
I am so glad I closed shop early in 2009. I wouldn't want to be affiliated with this type of publicity.
I hope this controversy hits Etsy in its hipster bottom line because they aren't going to do a damn thing about it unless it has a negative financial impact.
Anonymous said: "What is absurd about hiding behind the First Amendment is that Etsy is a private company and can do what it wants."
You answered your own argument: Etsy is a private company and can do what it wants.
All the weasel words in the world (hate, discrimination) won't change the fact that they can set their own policies and use those policies however they want. Obviously I don't think any of these cards falls under hate or discrimination, which is why they haven't been taken down. Either you're arguing that they're offensive or you're just being ridiculous trying to fit it into some law-breaking act, in which case if you're going to use the law then the law says people have the right to free speech.
It's interesting to note that when this seller was first brought up they had 7 sales. Now with all the free advertising, just look at how many they have...
The bottom line is that either the people who answer every Etsy argument with "Etsy is a venue" are right, or Etsy needs to police every single item sold on the site based on what they feel the site's image should be.
You can't have it both ways. If they police items and let these through then yes, you could say they "support" whatever the cards say. If they're a venue then I'm sorry, but Etsy isn't supporting what the cards say any more than they support off-color religious paintings and wild sex toys. It's a venue and it's on the SELLERS to say what they sell (support) and what the buyers buy (support).
But of course the mere suggestion of looking at it logically means that I also support rape and racism or whatever else you want to throw out there, right?
As much as I hate mature sellers and their whiny attitudes, I have to agree with them when it comes to the fact that if Etsy removes everything that anyone finds offensive then there won't be much for sale.
I think muting violates the first amendment more than this does. But what everyone needs to realize is that this is a private company and they can decide who or what they want on their site. LEAVE.
And may I say, its -great- that /b/tards have found Etsy. Those fools can take down Etsy in no time if they really wanted to.
Oiknk said ... "All the weasel words in the world "
OKAY wait let's go from there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word
How on earth are hate and discrimination 'weasel words'? It doesn't fit the definition in the slightest.
As far as weasels, though, Etsy is very good at weaseling out of things.
Wow, he's be on nationwide TV and had thousands of visits, and has sold 69 $2.50 cards? Is that supposed to be impressive? It tells me that most people see this crap and are not interested in purchasing it.
The fact is that a very broad spectrum of society finds mocking developmentally disabled children and victims of sexual assault to be revolting. This loser attempts to make a business out of rubbing salt in the wounds of people weaker than him. It's utterly pathetic.
Simply calling the shop 'you stupid bitch' is hate enough for me. Etsy, as usual, has shown no spine, morals or social responsibility here. They would be well within their rights to remove this offensive tripe, I mean hell - they close people down for insulting one of their little douchey staff members - but for some odd reason they're not willing to in this case. Hmm.
What wonderful standards to uphold. You people speaking up for this slimy POS sure are doing good in the world.
Looking at it logically, for the sake of some asshole selling these shitty cards for $2.50 a pop, Etsy's brand has been associated with hatred of women and mocking of cancer victims on the national news. Oh boy, nice trade.
C The laiming this has something to do with the 1st amendment sure is a joke. It's about as persuasive as defending resellers under the interstate commerce clause.
Yeah, Etsy is free to do what they want on their site, obviously. And they DO allow or disallow certain items. If this was making fun of a certain race, it would be banned. Making fun of Downs kids and attacking women?
Obviously Etsy's TOS is incomplete. To say it has anything to do with sex toys just doesn't hold water.
You should see some of the cards at this seller's non-Etsy website. The ones (s)he has on Etsy are positively tame compared to those.
Etsy isn't going to deal with this because dealing with it would require them to think and behave like grownups--something I doubt they're capable of doing.
There's no law saying they have to allow these items to be sold. There's no law prohibiting them from allowing them to be sold.
Etsy's problem is that they can't sit still and think long enough to prepare anything that looks like an intelligent policy for what can and can't be sold there. They can't regulate their mature content policy. They can't decide who belongs there and who doesn't. Face it, they can't decide what they want to be when they grow up.
Still hanging on by the edges of my fingernails.
Very interesting points, Oink, but who would trust Etsy to make any rational or reasoned decision on any controversial product-related issue? They do have a documented history of using a variety of head-whacks on sellers they personally don't like for totally personal reasons. Just read 3 or 4 of their "warning" emails and see if you can make any sense of them.
It's not a freedom of speech issue (would Etsy know what that is?) it's an issue of a history of blatant favoritism that contradicts Etsy's claim in print that they are an "open marketplace" when they are clearly a selected marketplace for selected products that their currently paid people happen to personally like and promote.
No other product or store on Etsy has a chance in hell of making a sale unless they are handpicked by Etsy by it's quirky (and obvious) formula for playing faves.
I'd sure like to know where Etsy's paid lawyer is in all this noise. On an extended cruise to open an Etsy office in the Caribbean?
Yes, the cards are shocking, but at the same time it's also 'Look At Me Being All Daring and Cool' pathetic and childish. Shock 'art'. whatever.
What is more upsetting is that in this CNN video Etsy is being portrayed not only as a place to buy offensive cards, but also as 'a place for struggling artists', and to top that off, Etsy was not mature enough to talk to CNN about why they would even think of allowing cards like these to be sold there. Nice work!
I find it egregious that so many sellers posting in the forum are defending the shop and Etsy in this, and that Etsy has made no public statement.
I'd bet that shop would be gone in a heartbeat if the seller of those cards did one that said, "Congratulations, you were muted by the Etsy fucktards."
And I bet the forum cry babies would call for removal of a card that said "Congratulations muted asshole. You finally got what you deserved. Hope you never return."
The problem is there are no adults in the room (either at Etsy headquartes or in the forums) and it's doubtful that there will be anytime soon.
Whatever you'd like to brand it, phrases like they think "rape is funny", it's "attacking women" and that it's "hate" and "discrimination" are just loaded language that conflate the issue and try to make it seem bigger than it is.
These cards don't say "Go rape women, it's fun!" or "Punch kids with Down syndrome." So saying these cards are taking an active role in getting people to do something is just silly.
When me put aside the made-up parts, what we're left with is something offensive being sold on Etsy. And I bet the people who are offended by seeing naked women on the front page (okay because it's "artsy") are just as mad about their cause (threatening to leave, posting on their blogs, et cetera). The difference is that being offended by naked people is seen as idiotic by society so you won't see that on CNN, no matter how hard they might try to equate a naked lady painting with encouraging rape.
I really couldn't care less about what happens. I happen to think the "People with Down syndrome are awesome but their parents are assholes" card is funny because in my experience that's true. But it's really been entertaining watching the furor over a tiny speck in the universe that won't matter even a year from now.
I know, people always need to have something they can rally against and hate and attack...
Also, to respond to:
"who would trust Etsy to make any rational or reasoned decision on any controversial product-related issue?"
And:
"it's an issue of a history of blatant favoritism that contradicts Etsy's claim in print that they are an 'open marketplace' when they are clearly a selected marketplace for selected products that their currently paid people happen to personally like and promote."
What are we looking for then? A MORE restrictive and favoritismized (made it up) marketplace by them taking down whatever the people ask them to take down or a LESS restrictive one where there's no favoritism, no restrictions, and if you don't like it then go away?
They can't go hand in hand. If it's a market that's only open some of the time then that's favoritism, but if it's open always then it's anarchy and people might accidentally see something they don't like.
I think it's reasonable to take down something with a swastika on it, seeing as how it's illegal to display that symbol in Germany, for instance. And it's reasonable to have sellers put a "mature" tag on their listing if it needs one, as a courtesy. But how are you going to go through every single item and make sure there's not a word or an implication or imagery that someone somewhere isn't going to like?
At some point you just have to break the wrist and walk away.
They don't have to stand behind the First Amendment. They can ban the seller and close the shop as there were at least very blatant two sock puppet accounts created in lame-ass attempts to wind up publicity. That's against the TOU anyway, no?
Come on!
I mean, there are plenty of real things to say, I'm with Oinkers on this one. Calling everyone on Etsy Rapists or supporters of rape is a far cry from a card that is a lot more ambiguious then "hey, let's go gang rape some innocents".
This should really be about some more basic things: First off Etsy's lack of response just makes Etsy look like they sell gross things. They could have responded with something like "We allow many types of artists and this kind of art is rare."
Which doesn't really condone or attack the artist, and yet, lets everyone know that Etsy itself is not just an offensive website.
I worry about Etsy's branding- when they let this kind of stuff go unchecked it can quickly swamp the site. Leaving the mature contents poured into all the other ones, without any clear differentiation is quite hazardous in my opinion. I think that you could for instance make a section of the site over 18, and then move these kinds of products there. Not just mildly offensive things, but ones that could possibly make CNN.
I think that this press and Etsy's lack of action leads to one thought in the mind of potential purchasers: This is only going to get worse. There will just be dirtier and dirtier and grosser and more offensive things listed.
And if Etsy isn't prepared, they will over run the site eventually, in part because the non-offensive items will start to walk away, and the shoppers who come to Etsy will start to expect that is what Etsy is made for, handmade offending materials, butt plugs etc.
Wow Oink. Are you for real? This isn't about some shop selling dildo's. This is about a shop selling cards that promote the mockery of serious social issues.
The shop has two cards that are religiously offensive. Oh, but Etsy doesn't want to offend the community, yeah right.
And you think these cards don't promote hatred? That's why there's an "I hate you more and more everyday" card.
Congratulating someone for being bad touched, or having AIDS or breast cancer is just sick.
I hope Etsy loses its shirt over this.
This is not capital hill, Etsy is not the Supreme Court. Etsy is a shopping venue. Shopping. A place where you want to attract buyers, appeal to buyers, because you want them to spend their money there, and impress them enough so that they will return to spend even more money. And you want to appeal to the majority.
Well the majority would not buy these cards, and the majority find them disgusting.
Once someone is disgusted by something, if it’s food - they don’t eat it again; if it’s a person - they don’t associate with that person again; if it’s a place, they don’t go there again. And that is what it comes down to for most consumers.
For me and my family who are all buyers (not sellers on Etsy at all), this kind of offensive item is beyond penis pillows and paintings of naked women. There is no malice or mocking of hurtful, scary, illegal, socially and morally iniquitousness in your basic penis pillow and nude painting.
As buyers, if any one of my family members saw those cards, I can guarantee you, they would NOT return to Etsy. And if they then knew that Etsy upheld these items on their website, they would tell others not too shop there as well.
Some will say that attitude is not fair to all the other sellers on Etsy. These same people need to realize that they are not politicians, they are sellers who should be trying to appeal to buyers, not offending them.
You can argue freedom of speech until you’re blue in the face, but it wont make you a sale in your shop. What makes a sale is appealing to consumers and not disgusting them.
By doing business with Etsy, sellers are associating with Etsy. So when one seller tarnishes Etsy’s reputation, all sellers in association with Etsy feel the burn.
Sellers should be more concerned not over freedom of speech but over Etsy reputation. Fight for that, because that is where your sales come from. When a buyer is out to spend money on Etsy, they are not concerned with freedom of speech. That is probably the last thing on their minds. What’s on their minds is spending money at a really awesome website with a great reputation for quality products.
Once something has been ‘seen it cannot be unseen’, once a consumer is disgusted, their wallets are put back in their pockets.
It's very interesting that one of Etsy's engineers was one of this shop's first customers - wanna bet this shop is run by an Admin Boyfriend? - Hahaha - I can think of no other reason Etsy would allow this...people make bad decisions all the time in defense of friends - just sayin'. Almost tempted to spend 2.50 to find out...
Heck it's only few days later and the world has moved on. The Etsy sellers(or the one who are in the forums anyway) are probably the only ones fussing about it now. I'll guess most Etsy sellers and 99.9999% of buyers missed this completely.
Etsy got some press time and a little hiccup from sellers, which they silenced anyway. Gee sounds like cheap advertising for them. I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't the ones(anonymously of course)who guided CNN to the cards in the first place.
They were mentioned in the AF forum on the 5th so they were around for awhile
really? freedom of speech hahahaaaaa! I was muted for not paying my bill! Not the first time I haven't been able to pay it but for some reason they felt it necessary to mute me this time.
willy nilly Peter Pan rules, "there are no rules and them's the rules"
their disciplinary actions are just
knee jerk reactions based on their emotions IMO.
More than anything, this has to do with attatching yourself to etsy's branding and their inability to make grownup decisions.
Their PR department (wait, do they have one) must think it's cool to remain silent, when a few chosen words would have been the responsible thing to do.
Anyone outraged over these cards needs to take a good look at what else is being sold on the site.
Masterbating dinos and baby Jesus fetuses, well, just about anything that appeals to the middle school set....
The real choice artists need to make is if they want their work associated with the etsy brand.
All I can say is...I REALLY Hate etsy!
http://www.etsy.com/storque/etsy-news/policy-change-prohibiting-items-and-listings-that-disparage--11599/?ref=fp_blog_title
Congratulations:
http://www.etsy.com/storque/etsy-news/policy-change-prohibiting-items-and-listings-that-disparage--11599/
Now it'll be up to Etsy's always-perfect judgment calls to decide whether or not you're selling:
Items or listings that promote, support or glorify hatred toward or otherwise demean people based upon: race, ethnicity, religion, gender, gender identity, disability, or sexual orientation; including items or content that promote organizations with such views
Items or listings that promote or support illegal activity or instruct others to engage in illegal activity
Items or listings that promote, support or glorify acts of violence or harm towards self or others
We reserve the right to remove listings that we determine are not within the spirit of Etsy.
So basically all you're be able to sell are owls, cowls, and pictures of bicycles. "Organizations that promote..." could be any religion, activist groups, et cetera. No more handcrafted pipes because they might be used to smoke weed...
I could go on, and I don't think that it'll really be a vast cleansing of Etsy. BUT, if you speak out in the forums, for instance, they do go through your shop with a fine-toothed comb to see what they can shut you up for, and this leaves a HUGE possibility for abuse.
Anyway, I'm sure everyone will sleep better at night, so sweet dreams.
Etsy amended their policies, I see. It was a little too late but I guess not too little.
Etsy edited their TOU in response to the situation. The new TOU wording makes it easy to misinterpret and abuse. But, the only reason they did anything about it at all was because of the bad press. Count on it.
Wow, lookie:
http://www.etsy.com/policy/dosdonts#prohibited
Better late than never, but better never late....
The 'slippery slope now everything will be banned' people sure are annoying.
Etsy doesn't even do a very good job of removing things that are already against their rules, so what is it you think is going to happen?
There were ALREADY various types of offensive and illegal items that were against the rules. And, if Etsy wanted to get rid of you, they had plenty of ways.
I really don't see Etsy using this to remove marijuana, religious or feminist related items. I'd place money on that.
If you want to shop for demeaning bullshit, maybe Artfire or Zibbet or Ebay will accomodoate you. Probably not though, so good luck.
Somehow it seems this is a dead issue.
Etsy has made a feeble response, beards and bunnies are still "trends" and pink is the color this year.
Everyone needs to get busy making those trendy items so they can be an Etsy sucess.
Move along now, nothing to see here...
E's revised TOU's just underline the longstanding structural flaws in their entire model. E is run by a huge editorial staff who have clearly stated their personal preferences to the point where E is 150% predictable...and boring.
A huge list of TOU's has nothing to do with following rules, E doesn't run that way. It runs on personal preferences, including their proven practice of altering, editing, closing shops, and other tactics that make it a hostile environment for many sellers. "Preferred sellers" (and we all know who they are, it's a short list) are treated with a completely different set of "rules" on E.
The new TOU's should have been emailed to all sellers, but E is too lazy to care. And too arrogant to point a bigger finger at another predictable E PR fiasco.
E is quick to jam up sellers they don't like, but their own mistakes? What mistakes?
I'm really disgusted by all the people (some of whom I'd respected up to this point) who are so eager to defend the promotion of misogyny, sexual violence and ridiculing the disabled. You don't have to be personally offended by something to be able to figure out that it just might be offensive, especially to the groups targeted.
I do wonder how many of the people who are asserting that this is no big deal would be singing the same tune if the cards displayed a racial bias instead.
Now that they have finished having the "lawyers" go over it and have a chance to word their own response, Etsy can look all politically correct and shit.
If it looks good on the surface, that is all that matters. SSDD
There are some comments here that the tainting of Etsy's image will be fleeting.
Not in my experience. I work & sell in a number of brick & mortar stores & art co-ops & many of the shoppers who come in know about Etsy & the rape cards. Even as of a couple of days ago.
And I've even been asked by customers, "Don't you sell on Etsy?"
My reply: "Yes, but I'm minimizing my shop there and I'm against the cards and what they stand for and I don't agree with Etsy on any of their policies on this issue."
They kind of look at me with this "then why sell on there" look. If it keeps up (which it may), then I'm off of Etsy (since most of my customers at Etsy are my brick and mortar customers or friends & family of my brick and mortar customers).
I would venture to guess that most of my brick and mortar customers do not go in for the "keep it weird" items or any of the other things commenters here have talked about... even the light silly stuff that makes the front page: owls, mustaches, foxes and bunnies. In a way, the site is set up so that if "you can't beat it, join it" otherwise you will never get the same goodies as the favored sellers get. It compromises ones art & direction & apparently (now), their reputation based on selling on a site that lets in offensive, badly drawn art in order to keep up with a hipster version of the first amendment.
Well Etsy's "fixed" search that they didn't bother to mention that doesn't include searching descriptions anymore http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6736449&page=1
and the admin said they didn't want to bother anyone by announcing it, should at least make it harder to find.
I am usually all over free speech and am usually pretty liberal in its defense. However, I could not find one reason this seller should be allowed to still sell this kind of merchandise. Who - WHO - would EVER find this FUNNY? There is no one, no circumstance where it would ever be funny that your child has Down syndrome. I just don't get it. It's awful and I'm really disgusted with it.
Oh gosh, that was a long piece on CNN. Never good to have publicity like this. Yikes.
What happened to Callin' Out on Etsy? They're not there today.
For when you guys tackle the FORUMS, ... It's all about creating even more EXIT RAMPS from the paying customer's shops. Check out the cspia? forum. Click on a poster, go to their profile, ... and low and behold.
I am a rape survivor. Believe me, rape is nothing to laugh about. Any form of rape is a life changer. Even the most resilient of us live with scars. If the rape was very violent, and we though we would be killed, we can live in terrible fear for a long long time, especially if the rapist is not caught.
The other thing I see with that "Bad Touched" card is sexual abuse, incest, molestation. "Bad touching" is what we teach our children, for God's sake.
But to me the WORST cards were those making fun of Down syndrome children and parents. As a parent of a special needs child (tic disorder), having seen her hurt because people are cruel, dealing with ignorant teachers who thought that her ticking was a conscious choice, the Down syndrome cards enraged me. I kept wondering what kind of person could make cards like that.
I'm also a cancer survivor. If a "friend" had sent me a "Congratulations on your cancer" card, I would have been devastated. On the other hand, a congratulations for beating cancer card would be gratefully received. Despite the BS from the seller, the cancer cards had nothing to do with beating cancer.
I am glad to see that Adam stepped in and changed the TOU. Glad to see that there appears to be one adult at Etsy. Hope that he takes more of a management role (if Kalin and Wilson will let him) and puts an end to the middle school atmosphere of Etsy admin.
I'm so glad that this discussion is taking place here. Not only did I close up shop on etsy over this, but I also stop participating in regretsy too. The facebook comments on the issue were totally hypocritical and bizarre, especially since the comments there usually blow up over racist shit like "mammy dolls" or swastikas.
One thing nobody has pointed out about this shop yet, at least not anywhere I have seen- this seller has his own website and sells the cards there too. I thought it was against etsy rules to do that? Whatever.
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