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If there is one lesson to learn from this latest round of closures it's if you speak out, in anyway (even mildly) against Etsy - immediately go make sure your store is in order and spotless, free from anything they could even twist as being a violation. Don't give them an hair of cause. They will use it against you.
Essentially, you are in violation if Etsy decides you are. Whether you are or not is inconsequential. If you tick one of them off, hurt their widdle fweewings, you are gone.
If you link to a blog, weather or not it's linked to another venue, kill the link. If you link to your twitter and you ever tweet your items on other venues kill the link. If you link to your Flickr, and your profile there has a link to your other venue or website or Facebook where you sell.. Kill the link. If you dream of other venues while you fart in the wind, kill a link. Any link. All links. There is Etsy and only Etsy. Capeche?
I bet if they could figure out how to give everyone a cookie to track them around the web, and see if you visit those other sites and report back on you, they would, and then if you do shut you down for visiting those other sites. Shit maybe I've said too much...
However if you are Etsy favorite, who links to websites they also sell at blatantly - oh that's just fine, they love you after all, it's all cool. Everyone outside Brooklyn though who dresses like an adult is shit out of luck.
If your livelihood depends on Etsy, kill ALL outside links. They will use it against you. They will shut you down regardless if they items are the same as what you sell on Etsy, regardless if you even sell on it at all. You will not get warning. They haven't given warning yet, they won't start now. And anyone who tells you differently is lying to you. We've been here from the beginning. We've seen this too many times to count.
They won't tell you, you won't get second chance to grovel, you will not get a warning shot so keep your store so clean it squeaks and they will have a harder time finding anything to finding a hammer to nail you with.
And smile damn it, smile when you type so they can hear it! The People's Republic of Etsy is watching you. Don't give them anything to convict you on.
Remember - if you want to bitch, grab a pseudonym and bitch here. And we'll let you cuss as much as you want.
Here is the wrap up since the last post (it was getting long so I thought I'd follow up on a seperate one.)
The original article on the Dorque has been locked with a chastising by a pouty lipped admin scolding everyone for thinking bad things and saying worse things about their little playhouses. They aren't sounding too keen on making a hard fast clear ruling so everyone understands, since we'll those sort of rules don't give them wiggle room to shut of who they want when they want.
There was once quoted a "two click rule", you couldn't link directly to another venue, but could link to say your blog even if it has a link to the other venue, or to your website if it didn't have the identical items. Well now they are all but denying the two click rule was valid without saying what is actually policy or not, or well anything really at all.
If they think your red earrings at Etsy are the same as the orange earrings at venue B - you are in violation and will shut you down. If they feel like it. If it is Tuesday. If Mommy forgot to send them the allowance check. If their handmade underwear rubs them the wrong way that day and need an non-Etsy insider to punish.
Forum Action:
RobWhite or other Admin, Can you clarify? - shut down.
"OMG Etsy Freaking out here please help!" - shut down.
"Robwhite, please at least answer these questions--thanks" - shut down.
The closing admin remark was made a post in announcements as well.
"Once more, with feeling"- shut down.
"RobW, I am still confused on links in shops (sorry!). Please bear with me.." - shut down.
"Bottomline: Will you give us notice and a chance?" - still going. Shall we take bets?
"Am I allowed to ask?" - Still active.
Monday's posts:
"So im breaking the rules?!"- Still active.
"Facebook Fanpage Link Legal?"- Still active.
"Re: links to other websites - what are the 'same items'?- Still active.
"You are welcome to list/sell your items wherever you choose. Etsy does not claim exclusivity over your items. Our rule is merely concerned with using Etsy as a means to direct shoppers to make purchases somewhere else online.No, we NEED to get nitpicky, because YOU assholes are the goddamned nitpicky ones. YOU don't even know your own rules so can't/won't tell us, because if you make them too solid you have to follow them! If you set it we'll follow them, but then you will have nothing to jump on to get rid of us when it serves you.
Rather than getting nitpicky about semantics, it's best to consider this in the spirit of the rule"
"2 ?'s re: Phone Support and the Phone Booths"- Still active.
(Etsy if you aren't getting the clue here, it's time to make a solid definition what is or isn't "linkable" one even your moronic staff can understand.)
There is no way Etsy comes out of this latest debacle NOT looking like they are punishing critics. It's clear as day. The fact they are still talking in vague circles what the rules mean proves it. They fucked up and now they are working frantically to wash off the blood stains on their vintage Chucks.
Not working assholes. You have fingerprints all over the crime scene.
21 Comments:
Etsy wants every loop hole they can find. First Rob says not to link to a site with a link to another venue, then he says you can. Great admin are free, as always, to make different rules as they go along.
Best of all Rob also says as closing one thread, Etsy treats everyone equally and with respect.
Oh pleez, why do they even still try to claim thatK
If the one & 2-click rules every meant anything, what's bothered me from Day One is that Etsy takes these bendable "rules" and enforces them using questionable tactics, publicly spanks its sellers on its public forum, and smells so arrogant, they just about invented smell-a-computer. I've always been shocked by their infantile behavior.
Now that they're raking in millions of dollars a month to pay for all those overpaid baby-tantrums employees, they think it's STILL ok to act like all the sand in the sandbox is theirs?
This all points to the sad fact that something has ALWAYS been wrong with Etsy from it's rotten core. They set up the us-them scenario from the start.
What's so bad about closing your store on Etsy? Since you aren't selling there, & it's gotten worse in the last 2 years, why stay?
If enough of us leave and work hard to take our customers with us, and talk talk talk about what's wrong with Etsy, it should only take a couple of months to make a decent dent in their bottom line.
Interesting that the staff have not yet learned the difference between business and personal.
I see it as a lack of self-esteem. They make mistakes, get called on it, and instead of being adult about it (meaning, fix it and take responsibility), they punish the whistle blower.
There must be some pretty insecure people working for Etsy if they pick and choose who they want to punish. Maybe, just maybe, they don't have enough to do that is truly constructive.
@thefunnyone here's why it won't work:
Some of etsy's most visible sellers like palomasnest link their website and blog where they sell the same products.
There are dozens of shops like this who don't have to play by the rules. Add in the starry eyed sellers who come monthly by the tens of thousands.
Stir in Tennangster's daily fav tweeting and you have a cash cow for etsy that sees no end.
They know it. That's why they do whatever they wish.
This was such wonderful news to wake up to on Monday morning. I'm glad that I as clueless until now - being furious always ruins my weekend. It is so arrogant of Etsy to demand the we include no links that might lead to another site where we sell similar or (gasp) the same items. A savvy artist should have several venues where their product lines can be seen and I feel that posting all of my venues on my blog is good for EVERYONE - me, my customers, ArtFire, Etsy - everybody. Clearly Etsy disagrees with that idea - or at least disagrees when it creates a convenient set of circumstances for punishing someone.
I have a new idea for fee avoidance - not listing anything new on Etsy.
My shops are dead. The only sales I've had recently are from return customers and local customers who needed special orders. Why pay more for a venue that isn't bringing me ANY new business and that uses "business" tactics that make me sick to my stomach?
Even if the artists leave, the resellers and the rule breakers remain.
After all who's going to fund that humdinger of a party this month that etsy is throwing for their 5th anniversary?
I guess they will be patting themselves on the back and then reporting it in the Dorque.
You may be able to convince veteran Etsians to leave, but unfortuantely, there are many more naive sellers (and resellers) in line to sign up! And the sellers that kiss-ass won't go, either. Etsy's lack of professional maturity will be their eventual downfall, but in the mean time, they still have their "sheeple" and their brown-nosers supporting them. Etsy does not want to have direct contact with their clients....period! That's why they want to go the way of instant chatting instead of phones. They are from the generation that has grown up with and communicated on electronic devices and have never learned how to deal with people in person. And speaking from experience as someone that has worked in the corporate world, all the company lunchs and picnics and once a month birthday cakes only go so far in making it a fun place to work.....believe me!
Oh, yeah....as to the off-site linking. I have my blog, Facebook and Twitter links on my Etsy profile. If you go to my blog, Facebbok or Twitter accounts, you will find my stand alone website where I sell my stuff link, BUT you will also find my link BACK TO ETSY! That is free advertising for Etsy.......they are shooting themselves in the foot if they decide to tell sellers they can't link off-site at all! Isn't Etsy the one that encourages spamming Twitter and Facebook with links to your Etsy shop?
I'm wondering when the forum will hear again from one PeculiarBiatch who seems to think it's perfectly ok for staff to take revenge by hiding behind the TOU. She's the one who likes to tell other people to be nice in a very sanctimonious tone.
I certainly agree that the new and fave sellers (who have all their mktg done by Etsy for free)plus resellers make the bulk of Etsy's money, but therin lies the problem. They are the only ones making any money!
Having a store on Etsy is done for 3 reasons (1) you're a fave (2) you are new and believe the hype, for now (3) you really believe that NOT having a store on Etsy is worse.
Not having a store on Etsy may have been valid reason 2-2.5 years ago, but it no longer is. If you aren't selling and put up with a still-malfunctioning search, 100 smarmy employees who spout off in the forums when the mood hits, and still get no customer service, what's the point?
If you aren't making any money on Etsy, it could be that your store on Etsy has more negatives attached to it than positives. Like $10 and under junk and skirts in 150 sizes for $8.99. Etsy/Regretsy is all one big blur.
It won't be hard to usher the customers elsewhere-------since there are so few to persuade!
Etsy is all about sellers who buy from other sellers, period. After 5 years, that's all it is.
Etsy is a forumula, and a pretty worn out one at that. The only way to put them out of business is to stop doing business with them as both a seller and buyer.
Etsy may carry on for another 12-18 months, but they'll just be another static storefront that shows a dozen faves and 4,999,999 resellers who move over permanently from eBay.
This point in time is crucial for Etsy sellers since Etsy is going to start pushing a huge "social ecommerce" effort. No sellers, no site. No sellers, no community. No sellers, no more free marketing labor. No interest, no trickle of buyers, no site.
A handmade world without Etsy might be a very good thing indeed.
"The original article on the Dorque has been locked with a chastising by a pouty lipped admin scolding everyone for thinking bad things and saying worse things about their little playhouses."
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Huh. I don't read that closing comment as chastising or pouty-lipped or scolding. So much hyperbole and projecting here.
Otherwise I agree that this whole thing is fishy and shady and sad.
I have to say I honestly don't give a flying you-know-what. I read Etsy Bitch before I got a shop on Etsy, so I already knew that dishonesty of all types is not uncommon there. I started a shop anyway, because I don't have that many items, therefore it's cheap, and it has a built in customer base.
But I also have an Artfire shop, where they understand that the internet works better as a free, open system, not the closed, paranoid venue that Etsy cultivates.
Any Etsy member who doesn't have at least one other online venue is foolish, IMO. Who knows what could happen - at my last corporate job we had a major power outage that shut down the company servers for three days.
Instead of everybody running around like headless chickens trying to "clean" their shops, they should just put their eggs in some more online baskets.
Etsy is not the center of the effing universe, although you wouldn't know it by how much time, energy, and emotion some people invest in the dramas.
So Bijoutiful and AprilMarieMai's shops are once again open.
Did they kiss and make up with Etsy? I think everyone would like to know what really happened.
That's ridiculous how many forum posts have been shut down when it's obviously just users looking for help from admins! I've been posting on some etsy forums linking to my blog post about an etsy alternative I've come out with: http://efreeme.com/
Think I'll be shut down? I'll keep you guys posted if I do.
In the meantime, anyone fed up with etsy please come take a look at efreeme.com! Not only are there no listing fees or commissions, right now we'll GIVE YOU $5 to open a store and list 20 items or more! (Sorry for the plug!)
I don't kiss ass, and I am proud to see them back.
Etsy employees LOVE smootch marks on their behinds, and when they don't get them they get all upset.
Hint: YOU GET PAID. That's all the kissing you need.
I wonder if big resellers were never touched because of one simple difference between them and us (other than the money):
They have a legal department, we don't. If they get shut down, they might sue.
vanessa was the only admin who would actually respond to my convos during the incident with more than a cut and paste response. 2 admin i convoed refused to reply.
there was no kissing going on behind the scenes. there was tooth and nail fighting. the semi-apology buried at the end of the locked thread is all we got, and all we will get.
by and large i am holding my cards close to my chest. i know the price that comes along with being open about any bit of what happened.
i want to say thanks to everyone who stepped in and did anything, spoke up, or lent support in any way. it meant the world, and made a big difference.
and, ya' know... it might actually be MORE productive to address some of these questions out there in public on the forum.
It would remove the paranoia about rules being randomly interpreted, randomly applied, and IF there is a problem with a Questioner's shop/muting worthy behavior, we can all LEARN from that person's experience and fix the problem BEFORE admin has to take care of it.
well, and maybe leaving some of these discussions UP, with DIRECT responses about what is or is not a problem IN PUBLIC would clear up the issue of the paranoia.
Unless the interpretation and applications of rules actually IS random.
Do not trust Etsy employees to be fair. They do whatever they want, and unless they get publicly humiliated into it they will NEVER reneg.
The concept of professionalism with those people is limited to the pseudo-diplomatic drivel that RobW spews.
it works on a lot of little girls.
Good warnings. That's how they justified blocking me - I had mention of my ArtFire shop (not a link, just a mention) in my profile.
My friends ask me why I don't like Etsy, when there are such cool things to be found there. Well, (a) the company Etsy is incompetent, and (b) they've blocked me.
It's not worth the hassle.
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