Tuesday, May 18, 2010

Pricks, Pussies and Periods - Oh My!

So now that Etsy is providing a link to the new Treasury (East) from the front page, sellers are rushing to the forums in alarm over the fact that link takes you to the most poular treasuries first... which all in all is fine except that most of the first page is Adult Themed. Here it is, don't say we didn't warn you.

Upon loading the page the viewer is immediately greeted immediately with images of handcrafted penises (#1), vaginas (#4), ironic menstruation items (#3), "What dad really wants" featuring a large ass shot with a pearl G-string, and a darling one with carton sperm and shagging animals - all without the Mature warning thumbnail as first pic that Etsy states you are supposed to have.

This exposes underage children, and non-willing adults, to adult content they might not have willing opted to see. These new visitors don't know it's a popularity contest that placed them there, but they will see it whether or not they want to.

I am no prude trust me, but I agree this is not images you want shown to new visitors to browsers stumbling around the site since the first impression is everything.

Some Points to consider (thanks to any who may have mentioned these on the forums or on Twitter): see PS at the end for changes since this was prepared

  1. Why doesn't Etsy have a setting when making a Treasury stating that the content is adult?

  2. Why aren't they filtering out these Mature treasuries on this landing page, or to be more correct all pages, with a link to display them by choice? (While the US law is rather grey on some parts on what is or isnt "mature" or "obscene", other countries are extremely strict on what is or is not illegal online with or without some safeguards for unwilling viewers).

  3. Why aren't they enforcing the rule about first pictures having a "mature titlecard" to avoid these problems to begin with?

Oh wait that would mean they would have to do something. Right, we'll see this fixed in the second quarter of the Apocalypse.

Before any of you go apeshit banner waving crazy on my ass: I am not advising censorship, what I am saying is Etsy has adhere to the numerous regulations and conventions regarding adult content. And they aren't.

At the very least they can follow opt-out conventions of international powerhouses like Yahoo and Google with opt-in for the mature stuff.



EDIT: This article was marked published by another of the team before I had a chance to sum up today with the news Etsy has announced just such a plan of Opt-in for mature.

While many in the forums are crying foul about censorship, and it might seem unsavory it really is the only correct thing to do. Many countries have tight restrictions on online content and how you get to it, and unless you want Etsy blocked in major countries like Germany ( who a couple years ago had a big issue with mature content on Flickr that resulted in all moderate to
adult content on the site being blocked from German access entirely). Yes ladies and gents, you can be a civilized country and have morality laws.

No, it's not fair to Mature sellers exposure wise, but they sell these items all the time, this can't be the first time they've been met with resistance. Etsy is just astoundingly late in act on it. It's not about the sellers, it's about what's legal in all the places Etsy is accessed.

For once they are acting in the best interest of the site, and believe it or not you. If they don't at least put this content behind a simple by-passable wall to avoid inadvertent viewing in foreign countries that you sell to could decide to block the site entirely for not having such protections in place.

It's not censorship if you still have access to it freely and only if you choose to do so.

Other Bitches might disagree with me,
I'm pretty sure at least one does, but that is just my take on this. We don't all agree on everything that gets published here, but I say kudos for Etsy making the right move in a swift fashion for once. It might not be palatable to all you reading, but you're not the one who might send in FauxNews with Glenn Beck in a choke collar itching to hump this story for the next 10 weeks.

57 Comments:

Crocheted Little Things said...

hmmm yeah the ass shot it's really not something I wish for my grandma to see. It's a gorgeous and artistic photo and the model is beautiful but still....

SK said...

Hello there, Etsy Bitch!

I think the arguments in the forums about this are asinine.
The fact of the matter is that these "mature" treasuries are actually highlighting violations of etsy's "mature listing" rules.
http://www.etsy.com/dosdonts.php#mature

It's not a matter of anyone being a prude or not being a prude or being pro or anti censorship. It is SIMPLY a matter of VIOLATIONS of etsy's OWN "MATURE LISTING" rules.

Were those items listed correctly under the rules, then really NONE of this bullshit argument would be taking place.

Rob White is the drizzling shits of forum moderators. That fucking idiot should be there on PAGE 1 explaining that these listings violate the rules, and the rest of those fucking idiots, namely HEYMICHELLE should be shutting those fucking listings down and FORCING the irresponsible assholes who list those idiot "mature" products to COMPLY with the god damned rules.

The very heart of the matter is non-compliance with the rules.

---------------
Secondarily, the treasury should NOT have the default setting that the lists appear in as "hotness."

If the treasury lists loaded on the basis of what was most recently listed, then none of this shit would be taking place, because some retard's ass-crack treasury would stop showing up at the top.

Karmarox coming to the forums and crying about someone leaving a "nasty" comment in a treasury that she made about tampons entitled "riding the cotton pony" really takes the cake. It uses an object displaying a bloody tampon. I'm not a prude, I'm an asshole, and I don't find that shit funny. I'd like to tell her what I really think, but apparently she's really fucking thin skinned if someone doesn't think she's hilarious.

It's all actually very immature.

Violets new Vintage said...

I don't think it is censorship to have a choice. I prefer to choose and filter when and if I want to. Good post!

Applebaum said...

I love Etsy, and I know there is a huge variety of artists and handmade objects on Etsy. I'm worried about new comers to Etsy who stumble upon these treasuries and walk away from Etsy thinking it's all about peepees, vajayjays and bloody tampons. That's a sale I might have lost!

The biggest problem, in my opinion, is that ALL the top treasuries were like this, thereby minimizing the great variety of items that are on Etsy--where I sell my products and earn money--get it Etsy Admin? Don't let potential customers think that everything on etsy is something you wouldn't want your daughter or your Granny to see.

BuhBye said...

Bravo SK!

This was all created by the selfish curators and the people who are spending all day clicking through said treasuries to keep them at the top of the list. The curators knowingly posted items that are against the TOU's yet they called foul at anyone who objects. This really backfired on this small group of whiny supporters and now it has ruined it for all mature sellers, especially the ones who do follow the rules!

This is driving buyers away from the site, how can that possibly benefit anyone?

Etsy should have stepped in immediately and shut down the offending treasuries. Treasury East needs limits and no "hotness" factor to keep lists front and center. Ridiculously stupid idea to allow this for so many days.

This is not about censorship, it's about following the TOU's. If people don't want to see this stuff, they should have the right not to have it stuffed down their throats, as it were. Granted, not everyone expressed their objections fairly, but the protesters laid it all out for everyone to see. They started the game.

I am a buyer only, a forum lurker for 2.5 years, and was considering a shop. I've lost interest in Etsy and all the infighting and immature behavior. Cannot and will not recommend the site again.

And KarmaRox....well Karma does rock dearie.

ahyup said...

I think you've summed this up nicely. It would be sad to see Etsy be banned in some places for unfiltered content.

WindysDesigns said...

Ooh goody, Etsy finally sees the damage that improperly listed mature items can do, wouldn't it be peachy keen if they felt that same concern for unsuspecting sellers who are fooled into thinking they're buying handmade from resellers???? I mean, gosh and golly gee, there are threads every day about someone buying something from a 'handmade' seller only to find out it could be bought at Target for 1/4 the price. I mean, resellers are committing fraud, but that's not as serious as mature listings?

And it's not all mature listings, it's only the ones who don't follow the rules.

You can't effectively opt in or out of seeing them if the sellers are not putting 'mature' in their tags so really it's a useless answer to a bigger problem because they won't get to the root of the problem by holding sellers responsible for following the rules.

It it's really as serious a legal issue as mentioned where countries could limit access, then it would seem that the answer should be to have a separate Mature category (like vintage), with all the necessary subcats and let them use any pictures they want for their first and disregard the mature tag and just keep that category from bleeding into the rest of the search, like Vintage,

If someone makes a treasury with mature items, it needs to have Mature in the title and even NSFW as a warning so unsuspecting people don't click on it. This would solve the problem, rather than a stupid opt in or out situation where you know people won't tag correctly and still get mixed in with everything else.

Really Etsy must you always throw the baby out with the bathwater every time there is an issue you need to fix?

You really make it hard to defend you on other issues when you pull a boner like this.

EFFETEandELITE said...

"Rules? We don't need no stinking rules!"
If staff feel like following, enforcing, or more to the point have ever READ or even KNOW THEIR OWN FUCKING RULES-- that's the issue.
The people Etsy likes to hire seem to know nothing about anything but cashing that paycheck.
There are no adults in charge.
Never mind they can't tell the difference between something old and something new, or something made by hand or manufactured.

The paycheck cashers have none of my respect that's for sure.

Stifler's Mom said...

I am sooo, sooo fucking bored with the constant treasury shit. I hardly ever look at the damn things and I certainly don't waste my time making them.

OK, the Penis! Penis! Penis! treasury was funny, that one I DID look at.

Of course I didn't BUY anything from it, but maybe that's not what treasuries are for, buying things. What do I know.

Stephica said...

The ass shot is also a reseller, a fact that I made aware to curator, who proceeded to relist the thong after it sold.

Blythe Hopes Vintage said...

THANK YOU for stating this so eloquently. Everyone deserves a choice when it comes to viewing mature items.

The only issue I see is that those who are breaking the rules and not tagging 'mature' are going to come up anyway, which kinda defeats the purpose of the opt in/opt out - and I somehow don't see admin doing anything about it.

Stephica said...

By relist I mean replace the slot on the treasury when the item was relisted, not that the curator is also the seller.

Christina P. said...

You seem to have missed the entire point of the uproar about censorship. Go back and read those threads again.

When mature items become hidden by default only those following the actual rules laid out by Etsy will be hidden. All of those who are not following those guidelines (like most in the treasuries) will still be viewable by default.

So all of the sellers of mature items who make sure they abide by the guidelines will be punished because some people cannot follow the rules.

Etsy needs to enforce their mature guidelines and that will solve the problem because all of the people who are currently breaking those guidelines will continue to do so and the sellers following them are being further restricted despite having done nothing wrong.

Amenhotep IV said...

<>

Yep. There you have it.

I don't hate mature items at all. Just follow the rules, censor the first image, and everything's fine. It's really that easy.

The mature item issue highlights bigger problems of Etsy's lack of ability or willingness to enforce their TOU.

Instead of handling each of the violators individually, they swept the whole thing under the rug with an "opt" feature.

WindyRiver said...

Exactly! There's no need for an opt in or out - if people had followed the rules, these treasuries would have only had thumbnails stating mature content and the whole brouhaha would have been avoided. As for the reselling issue - that is a continuing frustration that also needs to be addressed.

The Funny One said...

The underlying issue is still about Etsy's inability and refusal to think ahead of the games that sellers play on the site, which reminds me of what WindysDesigns pointed out in the last EB OP.

However, while sellers game, it's Etsy that taught them oh-so-well that gaming is the only way to get Etsy's attention (make what they like and list it for $14 or less) while Etsy lets the whole construct of the site (along with their own TOU's) go to shit.

If this doesn't make clear that Etsy isn't paying attention to the "big picture" then I really don't know what will.

Do you, as a seller on Etsy, want your products to be associated with this site?

I wish there were reliable stats somewhere that shows what shoppers think of Etsy, because that's what matters. I haven't heard one positive word about Etsy in more than 2 years. I can't be the only one.

Etsy never thinks anything through, but I wonder what they're going to do when their expenses of opening non-US offices turns up in the "loss" column. How unbelievably arrogant can they get?

BuhBye said...

The Funny One said:

"Do you, as a seller on Etsy, want your products to be associated with this site?

I wish there were reliable stats somewhere that shows what shoppers think of Etsy, because that's what matters. I haven't heard one positive word about Etsy in more than 2 years. I can't be the only one."
******

I for one would love to see stats for the last week....cannot be good for Etsy or any seller. I would love to know how many mature-item buyers this brought to the site and whether they were just gawking or putting their money where their mouths are.

I would love to see stats on just what percentage of revenue mature items bring to Etsy....there's the bottom line (no pun intended!) Items that sell to the general public (i.e. those not wanting to have "parts" paraded around in their face all day or expecting it) certainly bring in the bulk of the money.

The sellers and curators that are complaining about censorship (which never would have been necessary if they hadn't started this mess) are still deriding anyone who objects to their point of view.

Grow up yourselves people. It is not about whether or not someone sees a penis. It's about TOU's and not following them.

Put the blame where it belongs: on Etsy for not thinking through Suggested Sellers and T-East and on the posse of idiots who are still crying foul but brough this down on themselves.

Indigo said...

When you have a company run by developmentally arrested adults, this is what happens.

Censorship or not, it just proves that every decision Etsy makes, shows they have no forethought to consequences. Just like a child.

They don't care....about you, me, anyone, maybe even not themselves. I wouldn't hitch my star to their piece of crap wagon, because it is headed for a cliff, and I am going to sit back and laugh.

I feel bad for the sellers that stay, but everyone has a choice...

Anonymous said...

I dont normally comment on things like this, in the interest of staying out of it. But this has affected me personally.

One of my items made front page late one night, and since I have "My Etsy" on facebook, it automatically posts to my homepage. No problem there.. yet..

Until my mom is bored and clicks on the link. She looks at the treasury and decides she wants to check out more treasuries. Thats where is gets bad.

I get a call and verbal lashing over just what the hell I'm posting on facebook and sending her to! Yikes.. like I need to hear that.

I did post on one of the forums about this just stating that I didnt think it was right that these treasuries are at the top and the first photo should have been obscured. I think the forum got shut down because we were "calling out" these sellers... quite a stretch if you ask me.

Etsy's Do's&Don't states that mature is a visual depiction on male or female genitalia... I think a dildo falls in that catagory!

Keep up the good work! I will continue to come here to keep my rose colored glasses in check!

PinkyCrafts on Etsy said...

Thanks for articulating this so well. So many naysayers have been stating that simply because but you must be 18 to sign up for an account, this means mature content should be allowed all over without filters. I don't think its that simple, and I disagree with that logic. I didn't consider the laws of other countries, and I surely don't want more modest countries blocking Etsy and driving sales down even farther. Judging by the attitude about sales/views in the forums, I doubt that any other sellers want that either.

-PinkyCrafts (http://www.pinkycrafts.etsy.com)

thisshtisbananas said...

WindysDesigns said...
'handmade' seller only to find out it could be bought at Target for 1/4 the price. I mean, resellers are committing fraud, but that's not as serious as mature listings?

Sorry to go off topic, but I didn't know we could sell stuff we bought at stores... I'm a new Etsy bitch after recently running into BS and found that the Etsy Admin are like 5th grade bitches. I googled Etsy sucks and found this site. Anyway, now that I know we can sell store bought crap... I have tons of stuff in my house to sell, ha ha. To think, all this time I have been painting my own pictures and I could have been shopping discount paintings at Ross, ugh!

I thought all of those little trinkets looked like the $.25 vending machine goodies from the grocery store. I am always shocked at the sales these stores are making. Has anyone gone to a real store lately to know the difference between handmade and shit from China? I wonder if "may cause lead poisoning" disclaimers are sent in the boxes to the buyers. How will these buyers know when there is a recall?

Bootsy said...

This has been the most logical post EB has ever posted. Thank you!! I completely agree with everything.

Marni said...

I am glad Etsy is doing something about it! Even they recognize that mature items still need to be restricted……even though they say they are doing it because they are a global site and need to stay “G rated”, I think they also realize that there may be some legal ramifications if they don’t comply with industry standards, such as clicking on a button that says you’re over 18 or 21 before entering the site! Good job, Etsy! (did I really just stay that?)

tired etsian said...

Its not just other countries. Many people still do a great majority of their browsing and shopping online while at work. By not properly filtering in some manner mature content, Etsy could find itself on a list of banned sites for work.

Of course Etsy's solution won't work because they refuse to set down actual rules with a list of actual consequences that will happen if you violate the rules. They still believe in 'case by case' simply because this allows them to look the other way whenever they feel like it.

Marni said...

to continue.......

Yes, we all agree that if they would enforce their own rules, this wouldn't have become an issue, but we also know there will always be the rule breakers, regardless. At least the opt-in is a quick fix and then all we can do is "flag" the rule breakers. Yeah, yeah, I know that system doesn't work either. I'm trying to be positive today!

EffinYeah said...

Applebaum said...
I'm worried about new comers to Etsy who stumble upon these treasuries and walk away from Etsy thinking it's all about peepees, vajayjays and bloody tampons.

-----------
When I first came to etsy a few years ago, each day I would hurl a little over the pink vajayjay necklaces featured on FP with annoying regularity. Yeah yeah it looks like an okeefe flower.. except Georgia was smart enough not to make her's in lurid shades of pepto pink.
It's not what I want to subject my potential customers to. I don't know their level of comfort and I don't think it's in my financial interest to test it. I'm on Etsy to sell not to push for forced expansion of other people's boundaries.
Etsy sort of encouraged it by allowing the moon pad, vage and merkin collection FPs in the first place.

It's always fun and games until Etsy looks like a collection of immature weirdos.

ahyup said...

There are 4,921 items tagged mature out of 4,557,553 total items.

And I kid you not, my security word for this post is "hymon"

Sara said...

I had lost faith in EB until this post, thanks for making some sense.

Fed Up With Fools said...

An excellent post! Well done!

I guess the Etsy admins need a refresher course of their own TOUs...oh, but wait, that would mean that they would have to read soooooo many pages and actually retain what they read. Gosh and there are no Cliff Notes to be found...what a bummer!

abitabite said...

The problem in its entirety came from two things.

People not following the rules

And admin not enforcing them.


That etsybitch supports punishing the mature sellers that follow the rules, which wont in any way end the problem of people seeing things they should appalls me.

You lot are no better than the idiots refusing to do their job.

The Cranky One said...

"That etsybitch supports punishing the mature sellers that follow the rules, which wont in any way end the problem of people seeing things they should appalls me.

You lot are no better than the idiots refusing to do their job."


We're saying punish them, we're saying etsy has to enforce it's rules about first pictures on mature items - AND - they also have to make changes in accordance with web conventions in the US and overseas. This kind of stuff can get etsy banned countries for not having those protections.

The mature shit is not being banned, it's just being put behind one more damned click - grow the fuck up. It's a fucking click not a concentration camp.

The Funny One said...

Underneath it all, this latest bru-ha-ha is also about frustrated and royally pissed off sellers who DO follow the rules, but have seen their traffic and sales plummet on this topsy-turvy almost 5 million-items site.

This is what pissed off sellers do when Etsy continues to do one stupid thing after another.

Until Etsy figures out what it is (lost a loooooong time ago) then seller pissing contests will become as frequent as the bullshit that comes out of Etsycorp.

They asked for it, they get it. They created it, it smacks 'em right back in the face!

tangerined said...

Since when is a tampon or a uterus mature?

It's no more mature than an anatomically correct heart or any depiction of bloodshed (think; war, vampires, etc...)

You might not be a fan, and that's totally fine, but I don't think the mature umbrella should be expanded in such a way.

I agree with you bitches! said...

Kudos to EB for landing squarely on the side of COMMON SENSE.

Someone needs to draw a map to that same place for the majority of forum posters.

hats off to you gals--great post.

ahyup said...

It's a fucking click not a concentration camp.
_______

Tshirt plz

Lydia said...

Amen Indigo. Amen. It's amazing to see Rob's inability to have normal communicative relationships broadcasted exponentially to all the sellers who are lured into his trap. For over FIVE YEARS and counting.... Leadership starts at the top. That's why it's so scary that he's back again. The initial idea was good; his execution this whole time, abominable. It's insane that the board asked him to return.

I feel sorry for the people who still care/think Etsy's corporate culture can change without their CEO genuinely seeking and getting hardcore therapy. Etsy's response to this mature content fiasco is reactionary, like all else that isn't thought through at this point.

Etsybitches need to seriously move on. The continued existence of this site is proof that enough people still care about the company...the best display of Etsy rejection would be ceaselessly point the people who come here from a discussion of how to make Etsy better to how to run your crafty business without Etsy at all...

Or even to constantly bombard the forums with ever-new accounts letting as many newbies as possible know what they are getting into. Who gives a shit about their own forum rules when we all know that the admin aren't following their own TOU.

formerEtsian said...

There's quite a few countries that prohibit the viewing of mature content. They have built-in Microsoft filters to block it.

Where I work, we have filters, and alhough I can go to Teast from my work computer, the pictures don't load. At the end of the month, a list is generated as to what websites had to be filtered, and the IT person then completely blocks them. So as of the first of June, Etsy will be blocked from the computers where I work.

I didn't know of the mature treasuries when I went there the first time and the pics wouldn't load. But having done so unknowingly now will permanemtly block Etsy from our system. That is how many companies operate their filtering systems.

I don't care. It's less shopping temptation for me. Besides I am so sick of seeing that big reseller butt staring at me when I go to Teast.

spamberly said...

this is bullshit. really. a whole slew of mature sellers who follow the rules to the letter get put into the dark naughty corner because of the fucktards who don't follow the rules.

admin should enforce the rules they already have in place instead of creating new rules altogether.

some of my items are mature. i probably flag more than the average person. i've never seen an item i've flagged switch to being in compliance. i've been fighting the fucktards for years now. but etsy's just sweeping us all under the rug instead. nice. thanks for supporting that.

eb, i really thought better of you. oppression just isn't a color that suits you.

Jamy said...

OMG there are 952 treasury listings... who has the time for all that? :oP

DumbAsWhaleShit said...

Anything techno to keep the staff from having to fucking LOOK AT THE SITE AND WHAT THEY FEATURE

PaintedBullShop.com said...

Well, I have to say that Etsy really is becoming what Rokali had mentioned when he came back in charge...a social networking site. Cause it really seems that Etsy is a world onto itself, and are people really selling anything to people who are not Etsians?

This latest thing is just another social problem with the site and their Admin's lack of really doing anything regarding violations of TOU/TOS, and while all this gets discussed back and forth...the real issues that need to be taken care of, which would really be pertinent to Sellers (You know, those people actually trying to sell something on Etsy) get lost in the shuffle.

All the "new" features with Treasury East (especially the Hotness factor) and all the "Suggestive" suggested shops are doing nothing for people trying to sell something, but they sure do make great fodder for Social Commerce...right?

I am just curious, what happened to that Customer Service Phone Support that was supposed to be happening! And the other stuff that would benefit the site if it was a "selling venue." It just solidifies the fact that Etsy is no selling venue, it is just a Social Site.

-Painted Bull

The Cranky One said...

"eb, i really thought better of you. oppression just isn't a color that suits you."

Oh jesus.

It's not oppression to give people a choice.

Chantelle said...

I'm with those people who think that this wouldn't have been the issue it is if etsy employees were actually competent at their jobs. So far, etsy employees have shown a staggering level of incompetence at being able to deal with items that break the TOU. They can't even not feature items that break the TOU on the front page!

They've compounded this incompetence by their inability to communicate. Each person gives their own interpretation and none of them are right - when they answer queries at all, of course.

Etsy needs some people who can think, who can do the job they're paid to do, who can and will personally answer every query they receive, and who can see how one action affects everyone in the short- and long-term. The bunch of idiots currently employed by etsy (including rokali) should be fired.

DeadGirlPoseur said...

Hi Pretty Bitches!
I've noticed for awhile that these hipsters, assholes, whatever you call them, have an odd fetish with reproductive organs and menstruation.
I have no explanation, only to say it doesn't surprise me. I think those people are PAINFULLY clueless freaks...
Now about Etsy. They will never hire or consist of intelligent, competent and creative individuals. IT'S A MONEY MAKING RACKET! Every 20 cents you pay enables ALL THIS NONSENSE to continue. Doesn't matter, because I believe they are getting the site ready to sell. I left Etsy simply because the people who run it represent everything that disgusts me.

sgt bunny said...

I don't have any mature items in my shop but the last week was one of my busiest weeks.

I'm more concerned that a small group of sellers, who are now closing shop to go sell at ebay and facebook, which are surely bastions of virtue where nothing unsavory occurs, could launch a coordinated harrassment campaign to get things changed to their liking.

I expect to see every two bit team with an agenda to start petitioning for the same treatment, when all that needed to be done was for admin to follow the damn ToU, and to quit treating that group of pearl clutchers with far more kid glove treatment than any of the rest of us would get.

spamberly said...

no. opting out would be a choice.

opting in sends all the mature items to the back of the line by default until a buyer checks the little box.

be honest, when was the last time you "opted in" to something on a website? i think, psychologically, people are hesitant to do that. i really hope i'm proven wrong.

Marni said...

I started up my own site to sell my crafts....I have a lot to do to get noticed but at least it's going to be ran the way I want it run! I am only staying at Etsy for what limited exposure I can get on there. And for shopping for myself. But, me and my handcrafted items don't fit in there and as time goes on, the gap is widening.....I have to deal with enough incompetent dumbasses at my day job, I am getting tired of dealing with the same on Etsy.

WindysDesigns said...

You know what, I blame the sellers. Yeah, Etsy should enforce their own rules, but honestly, sellers know they can't or won't enforce them in any manageable way so what do they do? They exploit that weakness. They choose to be part of the problem instead of part of the solution.

Etsy made the rules, regardless of their ability to enforce them. It's the sellers who chose to ignore them that are the problem. Add to that the supporters of these sellers using the TEast as a platform for throwing this in everyone's face. I don't like passing off third party info as fact, but how can anyone support a seller who was in fact notified that one of their features was a reseller and continued to use them in their treasury anyway? How is this person respecting the rules or the sellers who do follow them?

Come on people, if you see a bunch of vehicles run a stop sign and get pissed because there are no cops there to catch them 'breaking the rules', whose fault is it really? Do you then turn around and flaunt these violators as the cause of poor law enforcement? If the stop sign runner hits a pedestrian, whose fault is it? The county for not enforcing the law or the person who decided they didn't need to follow the law?

I've never, in my life, seen a group of people, so eager to find the weaknesses in a situation and rather than try and protect them from getting worse, choose to exploit them and compound the problem.

Etsy may provide the perfect environment for rule breakers, but it still boils down to individual choices.

Opt in might not be an ideal solution, but it stands to reason that if you want to be found by the people who are actually looking for what you sell you will tag appropriately. If you refuse to comply and are found in the regular search you are much easier to spot as a violator and you are much more likely to be ignored or flagged. Even if you are noticed more, it is unlikely that it is by your target market who would obviously opt in to find what they are looking for. It does make logical sense. I think this would be enhanced if there were actually a mature category.

Maybe instead of screaming discrimination, you should be advocating for your own category. Right now your stuff is mixed in with everything else and there is no way to see the range of mature items there are. I had no idea there were adult sized baby clothes on Etsy until it was featured on Regretsy. Now, it isn't something I would look for, but I wouldn't even know it existed here otherwise. How many other thing are hidden away, mixed in with everything else that people will never discover?

Opt in or out isn't going to solve the problem unless there is an incentive to comply and a clear disadvantage to those that don't comply. Exposure is the incentive and lack of exposure is the disadvantage, not the active enforcement of the rules. I say use this as an opportunity to try and work with Etsy to your advantage instead of blaming them for the predicament.

The Cranky One said...

Ebay.

try to buy an adut product without opting in.

I just looked at dildos, to match some item in the top treasury. Looked for a glass dildo.

Had to do a "I understand these are adult items" disclaimer page and a click.


Google.

Have to opt in to see adult pics. I've mentioned that already.


That's just two I can give more.

formerEtsian said...

What pisses me off is that one curator has a reseller in her treasury (the ass with the pearl gstring). So this reseller is getting loads of PR and SALES.

Here's the link to her wholesaler.
http://pearlthongstore.com/main/

I hope EB posts this as we need to spread the word about this reseller, who despite being reported many times, remains.

And for cripes sake, my security word is "pusses"

BuhBye said...

What don't some understand about "mainstream" and "general audiences?" Lauren/stellaloella explained this very well in DesignedbyLucinda's ideas thread.

For all those jump-on-the-bandwagon posters who are constantly reminding everyone that Etsy is an "adult site and you have to be 18," read stellaloella's post. She explains it very nicely.

It's a pretty simple concept. You want the world to see Etsy? The whole world doesn't want to see mature items unless they're asked.

It's not about just a "few complainers" who asked for change, the MAJORITY of the universe (okay, that might be a stretch) but certainly more people want the choice to NOT to see the stuff unless they are asked. This is just common sense, find some! It doesn't need this huge debate, it's quite simple.

Stop with the narrow focus and wake up to the world. Most people did not find Etsy because of mature sellers. They will never be the mascot or the masthead for Etsy.

I fully support their right to sell anywhere they want, and I understand the mature sellers are not happy with the impending changes. It's too bad all of you staged this ridiculous stunt in T East.

FedUp said...

I blame the sellers that made the treasuries. They knew damn well what they were doing. Hope you guys are happy now!

thisshtisbananas said...

Can someone do a shit treasury and see how far it flies. Take photos of your shit. Put some shit on a necklace. Make Shit cupcakes. Smear some in abstract and call it art. Make shit earrings. The possibilities are endless. Imagine how much fun and faddish it will become. Of course you may have to name it poo poo. Oh, I almost forgot, shit stained panties. Handmade Enemas. Oh please someone do it just for fun. It may make the FP.

The Cranky One said...

re that pearl thong:

Looking at that link, I could make those. Just a waist band of stretch elastic and a tacked on length or plastic pearls. Until you find the site with the same pic, you don't know for sure who it's a reseller of.

Maybe I need to hand make some. $2 materials tops and sell it for $10 and undersell all the ressllers.

Boring Sally said...

yep, I'd say the treasury curators created this problem, so now they have to live with the consequences.

Tampons and such are really pushing the envelope (on purpose) so yes, I consider that sibect to be mature. How do you explain to a kid that it's ok to flash a bloody tampon in your face? What does that accomplish?

And btw, it's not censorship. It's a private site, like Flickr, eBay and so on. They can censor content all they want, and should.

Thanks EB for a tiny voice of reason.

Boring Sally said...

I had to laugh at the indignation that Vulva was shut down temporarily until she complied with the TOUs. Isn't this what all the controversy is about - making shops comply, and when Etsy does, everyone was horrified. Call the kettle black, eh? ironic in its highest degree.

Kali the Destroyer said...

Doodette says, soo where'd they go? those 'not fit for the children and grandparents' treasuries?