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I think with the hullabaloo surrounding the Treasury East and its lack of control over the mature listings, this needs to be reported on.
Its not that we're a bunch of prudes, in fact several of us love some of the gorgeous mature pieces of art. Its that Etsy fails to enforce its own TOU. That's it, plain and simple. These sellers who fail to comply with the TOU are only hurting the mature sellers that actually comply with the rules.
We have a screen shot, thanks to an Aux reader, that shows that Etsy has allowed nudity to hit the front page. Again, let's reiterate for those slow on the uptake. We're not against the mature listings. We're against Etsy not enforcing its own rules.
19 Comments:
Etsy not enforcing their own TOU? Perish the thought.
Why should anyone on that site listen to the TOU when Etsy flaunts the rule breakers on the front page, rewarding them.
That was the whole point of the penis (and other) treasuries. To point out to what extent etsy would go to to NOT follow their own TOU. Etsy had the power to remove those at any time, and they didn't. They don't care about their TOU, not for "mature" listings, not for resellers, not for last year's "vintage", not for anything.
I don't think breasts are considered mature in this context - the photo is artful and nipples have been shopped out.
If I could be bothered, I'd go look up the terms of use, but am pretty sure there was something about artful depiction of nudes.
Plus I think an admin chimed in and said that breasts aren't genitalia and therefore not mature.
However, I've only had a sip of coffee, and could be talking fairy poo.
The problem is the etsy employees, namely HeyMichelle, who ought to be singled out and fired.
It doesn’t matter if I like to look at paintings of vaginas or penises carved from elephant tusk or whatever. The fact of the matter is that etsy is a place of business whose actual target demographic is supposed to be everyone.
Supermarket analogy.
Etsy is like a supermarket for arts and crafts. Now, there are different kinds of supermarkets (or as we refer to them in my neck of the woods: grocery stores). There are your Aldies – the bottom of the barrel bargain basement types who sell nothing with a nationally recognized brand. There are your Whole Foods: blah blah blah organic free range hemp. And then there are those hoighty toighty ridiculously expensive places where they try to charge you $3.99 for an average non-organic head of iceberg lettuce and you’re not going to find a bottle of wine for under $25.00.
And then, there’s (not the greatest anology) Kroger. Kroger has some dirt cheap shit, some middle of the road shit, and some expensive shit. They are broad range and appeal to every demogrphic. Little old ladies shop at Kroger, pretentious organic / free range people will shop at Kroger (although they’ll find something to bitch about), poor people shop at Kroger, and, yes, hipster fucktards shop at Kroger and then try to act ironic about it.
Etsy is Kroger. It’s employees just aren’t responsible enough to cop to it.
Tits do NOT belong on the front page.
Vaginas do NOT belong on the front page.
Penises do NOT belong on the front page.
Any animals engaged in sex acts do NOT belong on the front page.
No one gives a shit about how much of a prude you are or aren’t. Be fucking responsible and understand that your site is general audiences, you have rules about mature listings, and if you expect any of us to think you’re a respectable employee, you remind us that you’re so fucking IMPARTIAL that the rules are the rules and they are enforced regardless of who violated them. You DO NOT have an opinion (as a paid etsy employee) beyond the rules are THE RULES, and they will be enforced.
This really isn’t that hard.
John Foley said...
Etsy not enforcing their own TOU? Perish the thought.
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That's kinda hard to do when you're too busy looking for cowls and mustaches to even READ the TOU. Seriously, if we gave the etsy staff a pop quiz on the TOU, I shudder to think how many of them would fail miserably.
I don't think that the employees are unaware of the TOU's, it's just that they "Frankly, Scarlett,..don't give a damn", about upholding them....after all, if they did, their bottom line would suffer greatly.
It is a convenient reason to close threads or throw in the face of anyone who dares to speak their mind, but has little to do with the day to day running of Etsy.
The application of the TOU's is strictly for those of us stupid enough to believe that they stand for something, other than a worthless piece of paper.
It is quite obvious that they neither respect it nor abide by it on a daily basis, and that is the major problem, as we are all aware.
As much as I hate the thought of going through that lengthy and sometimes pointless process again, I think it's time it was rewritten with a more realistic point of view, and this time write it with fewer "grey areas" and loopholes...and if they aren't going to kick out the resellers, hang out a big fat Welcome sign, and we can deal with it in our own ways.
This "some can stay" and "others have to go" bit is draining for everyone, and since it is quite evident that they are not trying really hard to close them down, why not just be transparent (for a change) and just admit there is an elephant in the room and they can't find a door big enough to get rid of it, so we're stuck with it, like it or not.
I know I got off the topic of nakedness on the FP, but it all stems from the lack of adherence to their so-called rules, so yes, I do think it is relevant to the subject at hand.
Well, I've done it. I have two Etsy shops, and I'm closing one of them. The one that's staying has jewelry, and that's fine. But I also make (hide your eyes) rosaries and prayer beads. I'm not a prude, either. Nudes are fine. I'm not a huge fan of knitted pepto-pink vajays with fur fringe, but it's still a free country. I just want to be able to show my work in an online venue that won't drive away potential buyers. Thinking of turning pro on Artfire and putting the rosaries there.
I kinda wonder what the real issues are, since Etsy has such a vague and non-descript reputation that TOU's, Admin bias, and daily sloppiness is just more of the same crap from a site that seems to have little influence outside its sellers. Sellers might care about certain flaws on the site, but does anyone else notice?
Etsy hasn't built up a large shopping audience, it's still sellers buying from other sellers. No one else cares because Etsy hasn't made any effort to go beyond a half-assed branding effort that has no substance. No quality control, no visible change in the increasing # of resellers, no change in the site's structure, and no change in their front page bias about picking a few dozen faves to promote for free each year.
Who's going to even think about Etsy next month or next year? Certainly not the buying public.
I don't care if nipples are airbrushed out or if breasts are 'artfully' depicted or if admin say that breasts are not 'genitalia' or WHATEVER. I have 5 year old with FAS/FAE. He has an unusual and unhealthy obsession with female bodies and, like other kids with these sorts of challenges, has trouble determining what level of intimacy/curiosity is appropriate. I used to have very liberal ideas about the depiction of nudity in art but my experiences with our adopted son have changed my opinions dramatically.
Etsy's TOU says that mature content can't go on the front page. Boobies are mature content. Moms like me should not have to worry that breasts - or anything else that would trigger a new obsessive phase - will turn up on the front page of a shopping site that is in our bookmarks or our drop down nav bar.
Tacky and irresponsible. I'm disgusted.
Sarks supermarket analogy hit the nail on the head I think. At Kroger they put those covers over magazines that have suggestive titles on them even. So seriously lets get over our "liberal" selves and realize that if we can lift the cover to look and see what's underneath it's not censoring.
Michelle said once in a forum thread (which I'm sure I will never find again, sorry) that breasts were not considered mature under the TOU and didn't need to be censored or labeled or anything.
I also don't give a damn about proclaiming how something is "tastefully done" or that "prudes should shop elsewhere". The fact is that taste is, well, a matter of taste. Some people are uncomfortable with aspects of the human body and if they feel like they can't visit Etsy without being accosted with those images then that means they might not buy MY products, which aren't remotely un-family friendly. So yeah, I give a shit and I find it awfully pompous. You can bitch about it all you want, but that's reality. Everybody's tastes are different.
Frankly if mature sellers weren't such a bunch of whiners I might be more on their side. I'm about as anti-censorship as they come. But coming across like they're the only ones that matter on Etsy because they're all about freedom and artsyness leaves a bad taste in my mouth as a non-mature seller who is just trying to get by with all the other problems.
Besides, it's not like their fairly light restrictions are actually being enforced (I see naughty "first pictures" all the time), so why they're so tightly wound is beyond me.
Perhaps Etsy needs to adopt the eBay system where mature stuff is in a separate category that nobody ever looks in? Yeah, didn't think so.
Well, I'm checking back in. I wrote to Etsy yesterday requesting that my shop be closed and stating that it was because of the adult content on the front page and in treasuries. The account was closed today, and I received a courteous form letter.
I'll admit the photo in that treasury is pretty tasteful if you are shopping but not for the front page. That's where everyone sees, you keep your store front clean
oops- I misread craftcult stats--not 13--just 3 today and a few yesterday--sorry! Whine over.
Now they are breaking 2 rules at once- on front page http://www.etsy.com/listing/38038296/bronze-chain-upgrade
Commercial chain and also upgrade purchase. Both not allowed.
Thank cinnabarr on twitter for this one
Wow, I just opened my Etsy shop a couple of days ago and am very new to Etsy - I never would have heard of it if Joy Behar hadn't talked about it on The View. I thought Etsy was a great thing and appeared to be on the artisan's side. Now I found this site and I'm concerned now. So much I didn't know about Etsy - it seems as if the Etsy admin team really doesn't care much about us. Does anyone know if Etsy has responded to the concerns of the sellers and to blogs like this? What do they have to say for themselves?
I'm sad now because I was hoping to make a living at this....
Ahhh, yes, but I dared to ask a question about such nudity being sent out in an etsy finds email. How dare I "call out" the seller like that?!? Problem being, I was calling out Etsy, not a seller. THe answer, I was told by many, was to unsubscribe. Why can't Etsy just enforce their own rules?
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