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Etsy has slipped a change by sellers - well tried to anyway. If you hadn't already noticed, all search results now have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... as the options with arrows to scroll forward - no last page number given, no 'last' to click, the ellipses aren't clickable, and no way to shop from the back page other than using the arrow a hundred plus times.
Stellaoella said this about it in the forum thread:
This is a new, small change we just made. Etsians are so observant, we can’t slip anything by unnoticed. ;)
'Slip by unnoticed'?? Why? Because we'd hate it?! YES, WE DO!! It makes having items on pg 6 onwards a really really bad thing. So, what, this will increase renewals and Etsy's revenue, huh.
Bastards
There’s sort of a psychology of online shopping to this change. Our usability testing revealed that casual shoppers can get overwhelmed by seeing there are so many pages of results. The thought kind of is, “I have to look through 500+ pages of scarves? Oh my!” So showing just a few pages at a time makes the browsing experience feel more manageable (even if the total number of results is still up there).
usability testing??? aaaahahahahahahaha As if Etsy really cared. If they did we'd have a more fluid checkout, fixed advanced search, search result changes would mean results are displayed by relevance or price as opposed to most recent, and a front page that reflects the number of diversity of shops available.
Bastards
Edit: Thanks to Eveline pointing out that - "Oh, and, you can go through the whole list from the back, by flipping the 'listed on' thing over. But that will give you the same problem: you start on page 1 without knowing how many pages there are."
63 Comments:
This is the Etsy way to cover up that when you search for any f*ing thing on the site you get a kajillion things that have nothing to do with what you search for...
This way, it LOOKS like there's a manageable number of things to look at.
When, of course, there isn't.
In other words, don't fix the search. Again.
Diddle with something else.
During the holiday season.
And piss off the sellers.
Again.
It's like they WANT us to leave.
There's been a lot of talk in the forums lately about going on "renewal strike", and the idea was starting to gain some momentum.
It looks to me like Etsy got wind of people refusing to renew constantly, and decided to up the ante.
This makes me so very sick to my stomach.
It's really quite amazing that more sellers aren't aware that Etsy is concerned about Etsy. Sellers were not part of their process on Day One or Day 365 of Year Four. Sellers were shut out from the start.
Changes, "improvements", tweaks and other "adjustments" are being made almost on a daily basis on Etsy, WITHOUT any notice to sellers. IF sellers point it out in the forums, they get a snippy, sarcastic post from one of those 3 Admins famous for being snarky with sellers. "Oh, you noticed? Big fucking deal, like we care?"
As those same Admins get nastier with sellers, don't expect a sudden change of heart. They are, after all, working completely without direction or supervision.
Any other retail site that caught their employees shitting on customers (as Etsy does in countless ways) would have shoved them out the door a long time ago.
Besides that this lovely little change stinks to high heaven, it's the 'oops! You've caught us! You darn Etsians don't miss a beat, do you' comment that Admin posted that bugs the hell out of me.
If it was something they were proud of, there would be Storque articles, emails, a thread in the forums started by Admin. They knew this change was shit, but they tried to keep it quiet, hoping we wouldn't notice...
And again, in the busiest time of year. Thanks a bunch, Etsy! You're really helping me QMDJ
Oh, and, you can go through the whole list from the back, by flipping the 'listed on' thing over. But that will give you the same problem: you start on page 1 without knowing how many pages there are.
There is no professionalism at etsy.
None whatsoever, which is a bit mind-boggling.
I mean, you'd think that after 3 years they'd have grown up a bit and that would be reflected in their actions.
But no, it's like admin are stuck in a Hipster Timewarp with no desire to improve their already lacking standards.
And the new search change sucks big time.
Stellaoella said this about it in the forum thread:
This is a new, small change we just made. Etsians are so observant, we can’t slip anything by unnoticed. ;)
---------------
Translation:
You fuckers just wont let anything go will you? This week you catch us (again) elbow deep in promoting our own shops on the FP and the GG, now this? What the hell do you want for your $0.20? Huh?
I'm not sure what users they were testing with, but I'm a buyer only on Etsy and I hate this change. Previously when I saw that there were 10 pages of results, I would search all 10 results. If there were 500 results, I would search the top 25 and then just randomly pick pages here and there (unless I was really searching for something special and not just casually looking). Now that I don't know how many pages there are? I search the first three pages and then give up. I'm not into wasting my time without having an estimate of how much time I might actually have to give to a casual search for something.
I wish they would change it back, but I've learned that even emailing them probably isn't going to make any difference. They've never listened to real users before, why would they start now?
Making all these "minor" tweaks has not only pissed off sellers, it does drive shoppers away by the thousands.
Since Etsy is focused 150% on 25 year olds and below (and are just too arrogant to care), they have no concept that "occasional shoppers" online DO NOT SHOP OR BUY on sites that make them spend 45 minutes trying to figure out how it works. And they don't come back!
Dear Santa: We KNOW Etsy ain't gonna give sellers stats in a gazillion years, but we would like to know how many BUYER VISITS ARE ABANDONED on Etsy because it's too fucking hard to navigate. Let alone understand the goddamn front page!
Love, Sellers, remember, us Etsy?
I'm also a buyer, and this blows. Used to be, I would see 500+ pages of results and start narrowing down my search (usually by trying to get all the kids' items out). Now, I have no idea if I'm looking at 10 pages or not.
A stupid change that kept me from shopping on etsy last night.
Zoe:
That's true, too. I would know to narrow down if I saw tons of things that didn't belong (all the vintage that is still in the handmade section or the jewelry in the pottery section, etc.) and could tell if I still had a good section to search from--or I could tell by negating things if I had a possibility of even finding things by how many were left after searching for something like "handblown glass ornament -jewelry". If there were still quite a few pages left, I might narrow down more; however, if there were just a few, I'd just do the search.
And it does short sellers on sales, because sometimes I'd see something I wasn't particularly searching for a few pages in (if I hadn't narrowed down too much), but I'd like it and favorite it for later (or just buy it, if the timing were right for a splurge.)
jess
As someone else mentioned in one of those threads about this subject; you might see something on page 6 or 7 that you like. You have to click and click and click to see how many more pages there are, but when you've seen everything, and you want to go back, you're lucky if your item is still on page 3 or 4... Long live batch uploading.
I am another buyer only who hates this. If Etsy wanted to improve search for buyers they would make a real advanced search that does not rely on tags. Where we buyers do not have to learn to put "NOT" in our search terms 15 times (or more!) to eliminate things we are not searching for.
I see this simply as a way to force sellers to renew constantly and nothing do do with what buyers want or need.
I agree with Grace. Renewing is Etsy's bread and butter, it's how they can post $6.5 mil in revenues or whatever the figure is. They got $27 mil in VC funds and the pressure must be on to double that figure and pay these guys back their money. Something ain't clean in the milk (as grandma used to say).
LOL at oldandtired's username :)
Wow bitches- Etsy doesn't care about sellers sales.
Etsy only cares about the upfront fees where they make their money.
Cause people to renew more? Bonus for etsy- shit for sellers.
The final sales percentage is just how much of a bonus they are all getting for xmas.
This small improvement may have cost them a ton of business.Word is most sellers are done with etsy. I for one, will not play their greed games anymore.
Sure, they will get a new wave of naive sellers to milk but at what cost? Their loyal, established sellers, who are also buyers will take their businesses elsewhere along with any repeat buyers they may have.
With such a poor search & inane customer service plus the state of the economy, they will only be able to nickel & dime their new herd for a short time.
If sellers aren't making money, they aren't spending either. Etsy is pretty much digging their own grave.
There are only so many cupcakes to go around.
I'm really honestly astounded at their stupidity & inadequacy. The only thing they are good at is hindering sales for sellers...Unless, those sellers are "the chosen ones" or themselves.
Anyway, I lasted a year more than I should have only because I didn't think it was possible for a company fuck up as much as they do.
See ya suckas, wouldn't wanna be ya!!!
I wanted to remind everyone that I started a way to keep track of those leaving Etsy (I'm going to be one of those next month). I'll add anyone on there you may know about and definitely click through to your favorite sellers' new shops! http://www.squidoo.com/formeretsysellers
What I want to know, and I've always wondered this, is if "sales" made to non-paying buyers are tallied along with real, actual sales when the sales figures are presented to the investors & others - they should have fixed the non-paying buyer shit, and the search shit before they do something like this shit!!!!!!
i recently 'closed' my store (i kept the username for purchases & to sell off supplies) on etsy, largely because i'm sick and tired of etsy's mismanaged website and admin's unprofessional behaviour.
i was going to post in the forums about how much i dislike the change in search... then i read stella's comment:
"We did not do this to hide anyone's items or to promote the practice of sellers renewing listings. This change was made to improve the experience of casual shoppers, who are a large, but often silent part of our userbase. We hear their voices through things usability testing and traffic patterns, not the Forums."
the important part i want to highlight is NOT THE FORUMS. so basically, etsy doesn't give a shit about our opinions on this particular matter unless we are silent shoppers... therefore if you post in the forums, you are not a silent shopper! WTF?????
LOL shitsammicheater!
====
You can add me to not selling on the shitsammicheater site! I'd rather gouge my eyes out with Q Tips then give a dime toward Etsy!
Time to come to ARTFIRE! We're there waiting for you!
I am directing people to my own site http://www.incense-stick.com and ArtFire http:zombie-sticks.artfire.com
Get OFF Etsy. Staying just reinforces their ignorant mentality!!
You know what's interesting about this boner, is that I have not seen one single person post defending it or say they liked it. Even the usual cheerleaders and cupcakes HATE it.
This makes me have serious doubts that any focus group preferred this pagination, or that any average internet shopper would prefer it, when it's NOT the industry standard.
This is a CLUE, Etsy.
ArtFire here I come!
I think a renewal strike is just the thing to do.
I would love to move to Artfire, but their front page is HORRENDOUS - it never fails to have that rummage-sale, I just bought a shitload of beads at Micheal'e and strung them myself-look. I am keeping an eye on that site though, because out of all the other alternatives, that one seems the best...
I think Etsy is a sinking ship. Admin is trying their best to save their friends and relatives-by using all the lifeboats-featured sellers, stroq articles, front page exposure, admin picked GG-
But really, it's every man for himself. The boat is sinking, but let's take that trip to Switzerland and drink the champagne up before we go...
After all- Anda & Pete have proven that even 10 shops is not enough to quit their day jobs. The Etsy dream is over.
Beats the fuck out of Etsy's shit sandwich eaters being on the front all the time by a fucking mile! I see nothing wrong everyone getting a chance to be on the front page! How a concept fairness~ I prefer it 100 x's over Etsy's set up of the few the proud, Etsy is not the Marines!
Oh well have fun on the cupcake site! No matter to us who are on ArtFire!
First of all, this isn't a little change and second of all:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA!
I'm sorry it's hilarious, it really is. Sometimes things are so not funny, they're really, really funny.
Eveline said...
If it was something they were proud of, there would be Storque articles, emails, a thread in the forums started by Admin. They knew this change was shit, but they tried to keep it quiet, hoping we wouldn't notice...
------------------------------------------
Exactly.
"And if it weren't for you pesky kids I would have gotten away with it too!!!"
I am also 100% done with Etsy after December. I have given them fees from thousands of sales and got a turd sandwich in return.
Ya know, some sites do have their search results show this way. But those are sites that have results show based on relevance...not date listed. So as the page numbers increase, the relevance to what you're looking for decreases. So it makes sense to NOT show customers that there are 10,000 pages of results.
But since Etsy doesn't show results this way, this change makes no sense. I don't believe a word of their assertion that they have solid reasons for this change. Really, one of their friends checked the site and said "Holy crap, 20,000 pages of jewelry?!? Why are jewelers continuing to list?" And Etsy figured they'd better keep all categories in the dark, just in case a seller might feel it's futile to drop yet another $.20 in their coffers.
Assholes.
Well I see it them wanting to sift the wheat from the chaff... and the wheat is pissed off and leaving the chaff behind to say on etsy.
This search shifting is great, if you are a "I'm desperate for sales" cheerleader chaff.
I don't know what to say. I am completely dumbfounded by this change. I'm also floored that Etsy did this without telling us it would happen. WTH is with that? I shouldn't be surprised I guess. Their attitude toward sellers is full of spite and scorn lately. I'm feeling rather abused.
Oh my freakin god. As if this isn't bad enough, the search is basically COMPLETELY FUCKED and it changes your search parameters because Etsy thinks you are too stupid to know what you want.
headdesk
I agree with the other buyer-only. How will I know to add more NOTs to my search. Argh. I stopped selling. Not I guess I should stop buying as well. Sigh.
Etsy, a veritable treasure trove of FAIL.
Etsy has always played these games, only RD is no longer there to give some assinine defence for the change (or lack thereof). The only time I buy anything off Etsy now is when I am linked there by an ad on Ravelry. Trying to search for the yarn I like using Etsy's search engine is a joke. Thank goodness for Ravelry, I hope it is providing better exposure for all these wonderful yarn makers and dyers. I have found, hearted and bought from so many wonderful sellers that I never, ever found by typing "yarn" into the handmade search on Etsy. I think the only real utility of Etsy at this point is that it can act as an inexpensive shopping cart system for people testing out their markets. You must must must find these other venues to drive traffic to your shop because, as we all know(except for a select few), you haven't a chance in hell that Etsy will drive any traffic to your shop. You are simply wasting your time and $.20.
I'm heading to artfire.com. I've totally had it with this shit.
Lauren's snarky little comment was the last straw.
You know, as much as Ebay fucks up, I actuall SELL SHIT ON EBAY.
So...Etsy is largely hit or miss for me, I had a boatload of sales last weekend but I stopped renewing back god knows when.
Artfire it is. Shame all the business cards I've handed out over the past few months still say Etsy, so I feel like I have to keep something there. grrrrr.
I don't even go in the forums anymore because just seeing little admin icons piss me off. Except for Rob White, because he's the reincarnation of John Lennon. Other than that the forums are a giant whine, callout, and lockthread fest.
I had it a long, long time ago. Etsy only cares about Etsy? Fine. I only care about me now.
That's IT!! I'm not renewing anymore! I'm done! >:(
In case anyone is confused Lauren (StellaLoella) was quite clear. With snark in cheek she said, oh we can't put anything past you. If it really was a positive change you bet there would have been a Storque article. Funny how they listen to the silent buyers. All the vocal buyers in the forum thought the change was shit.
Al you have to do is twitter to see how unhappy and stupid etsy admins are. The only satisfaction they get is treating sellers like crap.
And when 1000 new sellers sign up tomorrow, they don't need you anymore.
Nobody has to defend this move, because criticizing it is obviously so petty. It's cosmetic. It is also common. Go do a search on google or yahoo - does it tell you how many pages there are? No. It gives you links to the first several, then arrows. You also get a raw number of results, just like Etsy does. If you really need to know how many pages there are, dividing that number by 20 is pretty easy and will give you a good estimate.
I haven't heard one real reason why displaying the number of pages is important. These are all excuses to whine made up after the fact. It hasn't changed the functionality at all.
As for Etsy trying to slip something by, it should be obvious to everyone that they know by now that every small change they make is being well-documented and discussed to death. You were being teased.
Ops Im http://zombie-sticks.artfire.com = )
Yeah, Megan, and I can actually find things on eBay and BUY them.
eBay is WAY more efficient.
I just opened my artfire store -- it was insanely easy -- and I listed my first item. Also insanely easy. And I bought something -- checkout is totally integrated with PayPal.
I think I'm going to like it there :)
To find the last page, just enter in the go to box at the bottom a large number, say 1000, and it'll take you to the last page. At least you then know how many pages you have in front of you.
HEADDESK
If they would just fix the frickity frack search, then there would be less of a "useability problem". I tried shopping for a gift today and before I realized that stupid 5 page thing is now in effect, I told my sister "well I'll just make these", She asked why didn't I just buy some and I said "oh, hardly anyone is selling what I am looking for" because there were only 5 pages and because the search system is royally screwed up, not only did I not see what I wanted, I thought there hardly were any and the choices were really narrow. I hope those Etsians that I didn't buy from because I didn't realize they were there don't come to the fora complaining about low sales. Actually, I hope they do, then I will explain why I didn't buy from them.
Search Fix FAIL
If you type a higher page number than the actual last page, it gives you an error.
for example in this search the last paage is 86, but I typed page 200 and this is the result.
We found 1787 results for birds wire
Searching Handmade items. You can also look in Supplies or Vintage.
Hmm, we didn't find anything.
Please double-check your spelling. Also, try our Search Tips in the right sidebar or our Searching on Etsy Help Guide.
Request a custom item
Alchemy Alchemy
Request custom handmade items
Or, try one of our other ways to shop.
Some sites do list the last page. Some do not. Then again, I usually find what I'm looking for and don't need to know how many pages there are so I know how many NOTs to add (500 pages, bust out a lot of NOTs). I find what I want in the first several pages of Amazon, eBay, heck, Google. Etsy is the ONLY site I use NOT on.
I think the anger comes more from making a crappy search worse than the specific change. I scrolled through some of the threads. People regularly search on etsy and who don't normally are thinking they are only getting 5 pages of results. Only 5. What sort of help is that?
Plus...why did they change it now? Who fiddles with their website in December unless its broken and a mustfix issue? Yeah, you announce your sales, but changing the front page so people have to refresh their browers, check their flash plugins, then change other things? I work in IT--I don't have to support a live customer site, but I don't think I would want to be pushing changes to the production site unless they were fixing big-bads between Thanksgiving and Christmas.
No lubricant, no kiss, nothing.
*sigh*
bluh, ok, you don't need the page numbers. Fine, then don't look at them. They are small, not big and flashing red. Just ignore them. Having them there is "just cosmetic" for you, so they aren't in your way and they don't harm your etsy experience in any way. If it's such a little trivial thing then the people who don't like the numbers should be able to just ignore them, right?
But for the many MORE people who do use them and want them there, their absence is harming us and our usage of the site.
Having page numbers don't hurt anyone if they don't use them, but the LACK of them is hurting functionality for those that do use them. I haven't heard one real reason why HIDING the number of pages is important.
"As for Etsy trying to slip something by, ... You were being teased."
well isn't that mature and professional of them.
Disgraceful Etsy. Just disgraceful.
I agree with those that were disgusted with the flippant "This is a new, small change we just made. Etsians are so observant, we can’t slip anything by unnoticed. ;)"
Such twats.
I've started a poll here to gauge just how pissed off we all are - feel free to add to it if you haven't already:
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5944575
I'd be all for a renewal strike after this.
I've never seriously considered leaving Etsy, but I'm giving it some thought now.
xxx scarlett
bluh, those sites display search results by relevance, which Etsy does not.
On Etsy I prefer to jump around the pages of results - start at the back, go evensies, pick a few pages out of every ten - because the broken search returns so much that is not relevant. The new way is cumbersome and makes it harder to "rummage" through the many results to find what I need. This is more than just a cosmetic change; the ways people can browse have been restricted.
Search results *are* overwhelming for casual buyers - BECAUSE THE RESULTS HAVE NO FRICKING RELEVANCE. Sorry to shout, but you know how it is.
The *only* reason I'm still at Etsy is because I was an idiot and put my Etsy shop on all my promo materials.
That's it for me too. My one of a kind, labor-intensive items happen to share some of the same keywords as scrabble tile pendants and since those sellers tend to load in bulk, I don't think my items will ever been seen again. I'm so annoyed.
On a tangent - can anyone tell me where to look to find the stat of how many sellers there were last December as compared to this December?
lets get real for just a second
Have tried searching on etsy and it is a total crapshoot
the only time i can find anything is when the seller is featured on the FP or in the Gift Guides. Occasionally the time machine. Searching is such a mess.
How can an online site continue to operate in such a fashion? especially in a struggling economy?
When are their investors going to wake the heck up?
If your using the front page for new things your really limited to same few select people.
eclipse, you are right. It no longer works. It did when I tried it previously (typed 200, ended up with page 47). Guess they figured sellers weren't completely ef'd and fixed it.
Holy Shit Batman! Etsy F'ed up again... so surprising... *ugh*.
When people on the forums ask me why I'm so pissed off about search (because, hey, they found the silk scarf they wanted on the first page, and why am I not getting it!)... why I don't think it's implemented well, etc... I point out these thing:
1. Search with a return of items in chronological order is insane, especially with 100K+ sellers.
2. Search that does not allow a user to *easily* narrow down by choosing various attributes, is silly, especially when there are 100K+ sellers.
3. Search that does not allow a user to easily go between the back page and the front page, especially when listing items in CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER, is pissing off both buyers who know they are missing out on some good stuff, and sellers who can't afford to renew every HOUR!
4. The fact that the e-mail I used to get from two Stanford guys in the 90's had more relevant search results for the ENTIRE WWW, than Etsy search results do for one item on ONE Website.
Okay... I could go on and on... and I do on the forums, and I get bashed. Why? Because I'm a newer seller who sees that Etsy is NOT listening to their sellers. I've vowed to never renew, from this day forward, etc. I am officially building my own eCommerce site, and will have my Google AdWords directed there ASAP (no more free advertising for Etsy) and I will possibly use my Etsy shop for sample sales, only. Even that may cease if they can't get their shit together.
Look... I know this site was started by *artists* and that it's about free love and happiness. But c'mon. You're past the point of a few thousand sellers. Etsy, you need to become a real working site and a real business. There are REAL businesses on your site that are starting to realize they don't need you. If you lose them, I promise you... you'll be done by next Christmas.
Get some engineers that know how to build and f'en site and know that oh... yeah, you can integrate search tools that already exist into your site (Yeah, search is hard... imagine that!). Get some Product Marketing people who know how to do real surveys that are done in a real statistical way.
How's this... get a clue and be a business.
Re: "teasing" critics of the site:
Maybe three years ago I would have had more of a sense of humor about it. I think there is simply a time and place for lightheartedness. Addressing customers' (and sellers ARE Etsy customers) outrage really isn't an appropriate time to "tease". It just smacks of apathy, and throws salt in the wound.
I doubt Etsy did that~ lol Maybe but I hardly doubt it!
Besides saying you were canned vs giving company details is two different things~
Here is stella's latest response. So ridiculous. I want to ask her about the way they did the 'study'. If it's anything like the sellers 'study', it's worthless. It's not a random sample, the questions are horrible, and in the end, they don't listen... they do what they want and manipulate the data.
Yep... I'm so leaving Etsy at the end of January... I'm not happy about it, but unless they make some serious changes, I'm out. Oh, and believe me, I give tech companies the benefit of the doubt, usually... I know this stuff isn't easy... but the stuff they're bad at, actually is easy. Patronizing the active sellers, just makes it all worse.
Oops... forgot the link: http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5943528&page=61
Sorry about that!
If thousands of sellers leave Etsy in the next couple of months, let's hope it puts a big dent in their revenue, enough to take a hard look at being 50% overstaffed with employees who are blogging all day long---------not much of a money-maker, hmmmm Etsy?
True there will be thousands of sellers willing to set up shop and buy the myths, but Etsy will end up as more of what Etsy is now.
Maybe handmade, definitely cheap, questionable quality, highly disposable, might buy it for a 15 year old, oh how cute--gee only$3.99? Wait, this can't be handmade can it? I coulda sworn I saw flat screen tv's on Etsy for $14.99, didn't you? Oh, I bought all that stuff already, and it is soooooooooooo last year, would you actually buy something like that? I mean, even at $8.99 what do you do with it?
It won't take newbies long to see the light less they happen to get converted to cupcakes then it's a loss cause!~
They just changed it back. Hooray!
See here:
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5948608
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