Tuesday, July 29, 2008

Quotables: Copyrights

See no evil, hear no evil

Exactly! Now Etsy seems to have a 'let's pretend it's not here, after all, the copyright holder isn't complaining, why should we' policy which can be taken to mean that as long as you're not caught, you can do whatever you want here.

Etsy's attitude towards this is hurting every single one of us. It does not take long before Etsy gets a very very bad name allowing sellers to sell copyrighted material. And we all know a bad name sticks far better than a good one.....

wow...if etsy spent as much time looking for the non handmade sellers as they did closing threads we would all be in good standing!
This only proves the point i made in my original thread - we are shut down if we say something negative about etsy....and we are still expected to flag sites for them...weird situation!

Cover up please
The TOS dont mean jack. They are a blanket of a bunch of let's-cover-our-assisms.

I wish Etsy would start to realize that their sellers actually DO know what their talking about.

Not before coffee
Don't make me quote law at you, please, it's too early in the day for that...

Theft by any other name
Well you can blame evil corporations if you want but in the end mickey mouse is still mickey mouse and someone else created him so you will need permission to use mickey. Is it okay to use mickey because he's owned by a corporation, but not okay to use Etsy seller's creations because they are not a corporation. There is no difference, it is theft.

If you were quoted, congratulations and thanks! You can find your
celebratory "I've been Quoted" (and other EB avatars) by clicking here.


so-sorry-this-happened-to-etsy said...

Copying and stealing (copyright violations) are so obvious now on Etsy it is almost worth a blog just to address these issues. Not like Flaggy's blog. I don't care if they get flagged or reported to the design owners. But it is just so darkly funny to see this stuff on the homepage, realizing the treasury grabbing toadies wouldn't know copied crap if it was stuck in their own buttholes. Goes double for Etsy Admin. IMO...

DoesntWantToBeCopyPolice said...

You can't even say Etsy is turning a blind eye to it because they're looking RIGHT AT IT and don't even PRETEND to care. They openly promote it.

Most of these big corporations that are getting their properties ripped off here are clients of my company. Some are my personal clients that I work directly with creating licensing programs for.

There are days when I'm really tempted to flag this shit, and not to Etsy but right to the source. I haven't yet, but its getting harder and harder to ignore.

The Funny One said...

Thanks for reminding us sellers that Etsy has duped sellers into doing more than their share of the work on the site. Copyright issues are serious, but are just one in a very long list of really crappy business ethics.

No wonder the site looks like a flea market gone to seed.

ShrugItOff said...

Yes, a copyright blog would be awesome. I'm there!

The Storque feature promoting the copyrighted characters just sent me over the edge. I've seen items like these being sold for the last couple of years but have just ignored them (listening to Etsy's advice of "let the copyright holders go after them") but seeing Etsy PROMOTE these items pissed me off and now I cannot seem to ignore these items on Etsy any longer.
They are like a red flag being blatantly waved in front of my face.

And MaryMary's response of "we don't know if the artist may have permission to make these items" is such a joke! She might have just as well said "please let's not create an upset and let's just all ignore these things and have FUN! Okay?"

The amount of money and time it would take to get a license to sell 95% of the copyrighted characters, logos and images you see on Etsy is more money than a person could hope to make on Etsy & Ebay combined in 20 years!

*grumble* *swear* *grumble*

so-sorry-this-happened-to-etsy said...

Aside from copyrighted characters/images their are other types of copying that are being promoted in the treasuries and then wind up on the homepage.

This weekend I saw a reseller's dress on the homepage. The photo was obviously from a professional fashion shoot. Most of her listings state something to the effect that 'my first 2 pics are taken from a fashion mag because I used it to copy the design...giggle giggle wink wink'. So even if the treasury twits can't spot a reseller, they must be okay with a seller claiming openly to rip off designers.

Is this what the so-called handmade pledge is all about? Even if you don't want to flag someone, or rat them out to the copyright holder, why put them in a treasury fercryinoutloud? I guess it's old news that Etsy admins don't spend more than a few seconds before they select items for the site's homepage...or maybe aren't literate enough to read the descriptions and grasp the implications of putting copiers and/or resellers front and center to the buying public. Idiots or hypocrites. Or both.

forum rubbernecker said...

The Storque feature promoting the copyrighted characters just sent me over the edge.
I'm right behind you. This is my pet peeve more than anything else. I realize that people are ignorant and I see in the fora that a lot of them don't know any better. But you cannot tell me that Etsy, who was in the past nailed by Sanrio, doesn't know any better.
I have reported a few sellers here and there to corporations in my time on Etsy. One of these days, I am going to compile big lists and send them.
I don't know why Etsy can't remind sellers that they can't sell stuff that is trademarked and/or copyrighted. Maybe a warning when you tag or use a word in a title. Like if you type in "Mickey Mouse", a warning pops up "If this is not a vintage or supply item, we remind you that you must have a licensing agreement to make things using copyrighted images"
It might work. I believe in the spirit of truly handmade and this just makes me sad. People are also cheating themselves as artists and Etsy turns a blind eye and encourages it.

Really said...

For every person they bother muting, for every thread closing, for every person kicked off for no reason at all...

Why aren't they shutting down shops left and right that even smell funny- like copyright violators? That would send the message to everyone they better make damn sure they aren't doing it.

People would be too busy unloading their shops in fear that even the smallest questioned item could cause their shop to be closed, to bother acting up on the forums!

I think it's time for a sweep. Put 30 people on it, and check out every flag. Questionable? Shut 'em down. Period. Maybe it wouldn't be fair, but is it fair to lose money every day to people reselling mass produced items and copyright violators?

THEN etsy can take it's sweet ol' time reinstating. They already ignore nearly every email that is sent to them anyway, so wth?

mydesertstudio said...

It seems like there is only one action to be taken if Etsy will not do anything to clear the site of copyright infringing items.

The sellers will have to report them to the holders of the copyrights. Maybe we need an Etsy team devoted to this. (haha)

A team devoted to this.

Jennifer said...

I would join such a team.

I'm seriously considering becoming a member of the Copy Police Force.
I hate hate hate seeing this blatant ripping of going on and nothing being done about it. Well, aside from promoting it...

The same people who think nothing of ripping off Disney are screaming in the forums about how unfair it is that they were copied. Huh??

It's making etsy look bad. Really bad.

Andy Mathis said...

jennifer said. . .
The same people who think nothing of ripping off Disney are screaming in the forums about how unfair it is that they were copied.


Ironic, isn't it?

Morrigan said...

This is great, copying seriously drives me up a wall. I could make a blog showcasing nothing but copiers and resellers - but why waste my time?

Peldyn said...

But don't you all remember when they were going to allow a certain amount of copying? People freaked out and that was one of the reasons for the Constitution debacle last year!

pony-lo said...

A little off tipic, but i am so happy to have discovered this place.
As a decently successful seller on Etsy, i had previously considered myself to be all alone in my thoughts - until now. thanks god there are others who who can see though this shit.

BoroBabe1020 said...

What I found amusing is that a blatant reseller that has been flagged by many people had the chutzpa to say how bad it was that Etsy had a reselling/copyrighting problem.

::boggles, then throws up a little::

Eveline said...

Woohoo, I got quoted. ;)

Etsy's attitude towards copyright is a very scary one that will get them in trouble sooner or later.

me2know said...

I noticed that a certain cat changed her avatar. But, I have to wonder, if you steal an image from an artist. Find out that the artist doesn't approve. Have someone else make a cartoon of the original photo you stole and then use that instead, wouldn't that still be a copyright violation?

Can you take a popular photo, turn it into a cartoon and claim it as your own? The girl that "drew" the kitty most likely traced the photo in illustrator. I know she did, because when I pasted and resized the kitty's avatar over the old image even the hat is an exact match.

How does that solve the problem?

If I trace a photo of Mickey Mouse, does that make Mickey my own character?

stace said...

^ is asking this same question...

pinkeareddog said...

I was reading a thread about a certain cat's new av when it got closed, but I still want to say

I think it's really rude and cyber-bullying to come bitch here about a forum member at another site. Doesn't the front page of EB say "bitch not bash?"
Anyway, the Star Wars lady gets the benefit of the doubt for "not knowing better" in comments here, but someone who isn't profitting from an image gets called out here, and then told in the etsy forums that "a lot of people complain about you on the EB site." The cat isn't always the friendliest thing in the world, but she has her share of antagonizers, already, at etsy and I can't believe people are kvetching over here. I don't see how that fits with the mission statement on the EB front page, it seems to cross a line and seems just plain mean.

The Malevolent One said...

Pinkeareddog, if you're referring to what the previous two commenters are saying, they're questioning the person who drew the new av. Whoever that is.

We've deleted a crapload of comments about the individual you're defending because we felt they crossed the line, in case you didn't notice. But if someone is doing something openly stupid - like criticizing people for using images they believe are copyrighted when they themselves are using a copyrighted image - then we think people have the right to comment on those actions. If we think it's getting too nasty we'll moderate or delete comments. But this is EtsyBITCH, not EtsyHaveAPleasantConversation.

I don't know what who said to her in what thread. But it's a bit ridiculous to come here and complain about people "kvetching" about others when it goes on ten-fold in the Etsy forums.

stace said...

i said it... and it was true. a lot of people are scared to stand up to the cat because the cat does a lot of bullying. and somehow people manage to excuse it, time and time again. i'm not scared of the cat... i have excellent sales off the forums and off etsy... so taking this issue to the cat, herself... didn't scare me, in the least.

instead of addressing the question, it took her three pages to FINALLY address what i was saying, without insulting me. instead she talked about how i had too much time on my hands, how i should spend more time on my shop... she insulted me, her friend spent a few posts telling me that she hopes i get accused of copying people and how all sock monkeys look alike. and a lot of them do, but i have a very distinctive style... it's all mine, and to deny that... is kidding themselves. and i've been at it a long time now. i've never stolen anyone's ideas, or copied other monkeys. sometimes, two sellers use the same socks... socks are limited, but i never thought OMG! THEY COPIED ME!

then she spent a whole page linking to other items like mine, in an attempt to... i have no idea... i assumed it was her way of saying "don't buy her stuff" ... which i thought was pretty petty.

she specifically said she was going to use the cat as her logo for her shop... TO SELL THINGS. did no one see that? she had a banner made, too. i even specifically addressed, that if she were just using it to pal around the forums whatever... but she said she planned to use it to sell things.

she said that. i didn't.

puss points a lot of fingers at people. she spends a lot of time deflecting threads... she gets people to fly off the handle. she's been at the root of lots of closed threads.

i had to leave that thread in order to avoid allowing her to do that to me. i remained calm.

her and her friend did everything they could to get me to take the bait and act childish, and put them down back... other than pointing out that someone who's has 11,000 threads under her name [her claim, not mine] shouldn't really be talking about how much time anyone else has on their hands... other than that little gem, i didn't attack or belittle them. i addressed one issue.

she felt accused... fine. but 3 pages later, she says what i was asking her... she finally actually addressed the issue, without attacking me.

in the end, puss knew when she downloaded the image from photobucket and that is was not her photo. and she's been honest about that fact... but when the whole copyright issue started becoming a fight between etsy and it's users puss was right there in the middle of it, stolen avatar and all pointing fingers and totally unaware of what public domain is and the difference between use for profit and non-profit.

she says she went to school to be a legal assistant, shouldn't she have known that using someone else's photo as the basis for her logo was wrong? would she advise other people to do the same for profit? doubtful. i've seen her tell people to stand up for their copyrighted work.

she says she didn't ask for strumpt [sorry if i butchered her name, her monkeys are adorable, too... and i hope she'll let me add them to the sock monkey directory] to make the avi... but, she could easily, as well as anyone else, see that it's a direct derivative of someone else's copyrighted work.

even the hat is the same color.

pinkeareddog said...

Stace, you and the cat were in an argument. Neither of you seemed to have your shiny halos on. I read you telling the cat that everyone at EB posts negative things about her, and there is a lot of discussion about her, etc. . . That's apropos of nothing except "nah-nah-nah-boo-boo."

I am not/ was not/ probably will not be defending the cat.
I'm saying that EB posting complaints about private etsy forum users - not admin, not policies, not silly rules or broken features - looks to me like cyberbullying.

The Malevolent One said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Malevolent One said...

Pink, you complaining here about what Stace posted on the Etsy forums undermines your point.

It's our judgement call as to what's appropriate here. Your disagreement is noted.

stace said...

i guess that depends on how you read into it... if any one was trying to bully anyone, it wasn't me. wouldn't, technically... you coming here for the sole purpose to harass, call out, and whatever it is you're trying to do be another form of cyber-bullying, in your own definition of the word?

i don't see anyone here ganging up... i see people who are scared to say what they think because they are afraid that the cat and her friends will gang up on THEM.

nice try... but the cake is actually soap.

i'm over it... for the record. but if you'd like to drag it up again and bring my name up whenever you can, please... feel free.