Sunday, June 22, 2008

Don't talk business strategy, you might hurt someone's feeeeeeeelings

The big flat foot of Etsy admin stomped hard on a thread in business the other day, stifling a perfectly valid discussion about streamlining your supplies purchases.


stellaloella says:
Please be considerate of your fellow community members when posting ideas like this in the Forums. What may be beneficial to some could have a negative impact on others. It's important to balance these ideas to make sure that no one (or no group) is sidelined in the process.

What she really means is that if you whine, cry and snivel enough that your feelings are hurt by other people thinking of their bottom line, you can get a legitimate talk about business strategy shut down.

Grow the fuck up. Business is business and it ain't for the thin-skinned. No matter what delusions Etsy harbours about making things "beneficial" for all sides, people are going to do what's best for their own business. They're going to trim excess spending where they see it, and if that terrifies you so much you feel you have squash a discussion other folks are rightfully entitled to have, then maybe you'd better re-evaluate if you're cut out to run a business.

Shame on you, Etsy, for supporting that childish mentality. You made a Business board for people to talk about Business topics. Not all aspects of business are fuzzy-wuzzy kittens drooling rainbows. Stop serving the self-interests of one group by shutting down relevant and meaningful strategy talk. You actually might learn a thing or two yourself.

103 Comments:

wristeroni said...

If she truly wants the posters to play nice . . . why not just say that and not close the thread?

Apparently Stella gets an itchy "close the thread" finger if anyone challenges the Multiple Renewals Philosophy

godot said...

It's becoming increasingly clear that admin doesn't think that any poster has business sense.

Dare we question the etsy model?

The Righteous One said...

In all fairness, wristeroni, the last response and the lock occurred at the same time, so we can't really be sure it was the renewal suggestion that prompted it.

SewCrazyDogLady said...

ridiculous.

Seriously...

Wonder if I'm going to get in trouble for what I did with all the images in my shop...

don't care..

I'm even going to convo all the people who hearted me before I leave.. what are they going to do? Mute me?

impetuous said...

I don't know Etsy Bitch.
This one seems like bullshit to me.

"No matter what delusions Etsy harbours about making things "beneficial" for all sides, people are going to do what's best for their own business."

With this statement everyone involved in that thread was right for everything they said and did as they were all trying to do what was best for their business, including Etsy. All vocal parties and Etsy are doing well business wise, as far as I can see so... I am wondering what your angle is here.

Perhaps there is an AA boner in the house?

j. hart photography said...

ummm... i don't get why they locked the thread. was it because it threatened to take biz from etsy??? i've seen a lot harsher threads not get locked. who's feelings got hurt? was someone specifically named? did i miss that somewhere?

The Righteous One said...

They felt that the idea of not buying supplies, in order to save their own business money, was hurtful to the supply sellers.

They were discussing a legitimate business strategy regarding decreasing overhead/increasing profits, but then someone mentioned how that wouldn't help the supply sellers on Etsy.

wristeroni said...

I stand corrected Righteous One : )

forum rubbernecker said...

I'm with impetuous on this one. I take business advice from no one who sells cheap looking crap. Yes, there are apparently lots of buyers for such stuff, but, then, really, how much of the population appreciates nice stuff? Some days when I log onto Etsy and see a certain blog advertised YET AGAIN, I want to hurl.

impetuous said...

Well. A little investigating brings up this:

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5673295

If supply sellers are looking at the forums with a business eye, would it surprise you that they would think this title was not in their best interest "business wise"

impetuous said...

rubbernecker, this seller, in my opinion, is right up their with BeaG. Up to this point she has been allowed to skip through the forums like some kind of pied piper leading everyone to her blog and off the Etsy site. That's good for know one but her and Etsy.

I would like Etsy customers who are on the site to stay here on the site, preferably shopping in many shops, not getting sucked into the land of "Always Amy"

If Etsy had a shred of business sense themselves they would see that revenues from listings and sales are not the only thing to protect. Cultivating a buying experience that keeps customers on the site shopping and becoming familiar with it's fucked up ways also ends in dollar signs.

I am glad to see that these gluttonous sellers who guard the gates of the forums are being challenged.

just bitchy said...

This particular person uses the etsy forums as their personal blog which I find extremely distasteful. I think many people who post on the etsy forums do so with the notion to create controversy to gain attention.

I don't think it's a good idea to suggest on the esty forums not to buy a particular type of product. That is best left for a personal blog if it is indeed a business strategy.

I remain unconvinced that this was anything but a stunt to create controversy especially given this person's over-use of the etsy forums.

Peldyn said...

I, right now am not buying supplies. instead I am using up what I have, but I did not feel the need to shout it out in the forums. Actually I thought it was common sense and in belt tightening times everyone did that?

impetuous said...

Peldyn said...
I, right now am not buying supplies. instead I am using up what I have, but I did not feel the need to shout it out in the forums. Actually I thought it was common sense and in belt tightening times everyone did that?
__________

That's what I naturally thought too.

just bitchy said...

Yes, peldyn, that's why it looked like another forum stunt to me.

It's just common sense to reduce expenses when sales are down.

It is the over-posting by this person that really tipped it over the edge for me.

When craftdiner posted a similar suggestion as a parody of the AA thread people were upset and angry, but AA gets a pat on the head?

Whatever.....

Snark said...

Speaking of using the forum as your personal diary... (piece the links, didn't want them to get cut off). For some reason this rubbed me wrong. I don't give a shit that she's an aunt. Do we HONESTLY have to have a gift guide now? Seriously?

I can see it now, the future of Etsy.

marymary:"Hey guyz, I've just got my results back and... I've got arthritis! Post your best suggestions for an arthritis gift guide!"
marymary:"Hey guys, just wanted to let you know that its my boyfriend's birthday... He's really into music, journalling and fake moustaches. Post your suggestions below, (bonus points for free shipping and dry ice!!!)"

http://www.etsy.com/
forums_thread.php?thread_id=5570603

http://www.etsy.com/storque/
section/etsyNews/article/
forum-decorum-etc-aint-your-diary/485/

The Malevolent One said...

I don't give a rat's ass who started the thread.

The point, which seems to have sailed over some of your heads, is that Etsy decreed that a valid business discussion was off-limits because people's feelings got hurt. Boo fucking hoo. I don't dig the idea of admin selecting what business strategies are okay to discuss and what aren't. It puts the self-interests of one group over another. People aren't allowed to talk about what's best for their bottom line because it might affect other peoples' bottom line? Welcome to the world of business. Toughen up or get the fuck out.

just bitchy said...

I don't disagree on the whole, oh Malevolent one.

This is more OP related for me. I would be more likely to support the position that this is a valid discussion if this particular OP didn't post 10 or more posts per day.

Craftdiner's post was locked first FWIW.

j. hart photography said...

i'll have to agree with the comment above me.

j. hart photography said...

whoops. someone posted when i did. i agree with "malevolent one".

Peldyn said...

yes, I think it was over the top, but who gives a fuck, it wasn't lock worthy. But then a lot of things are getting locks lately that don't warrant it.

The Malevolent One said...

Justbitchy, that's an ad hominem argument if I ever heard one.

If CD started a parody thread, more power to her. I think parody threads are hilarious. Got a link to that one?

just bitchy said...

This post by craftdiner was a parody started after AA's thread and was locked first because people were so upset.

Why weren't people upset about AA's post?

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5673554&page=1

The Incredulous One said...

You guys, I believe the point of this particular bitch was to question why Stella locked the thread with a plea for people to be nice and think about everyone's feelings instead of admonishing them to talk business, not whining. She bought right into the childish complaints instead of keeping the discussion on track in a professional way.

I don't care how anyone feels about the OP. I don't happen to think that she presented her "strategy" well, but someone might have picked up on it and turned the discussion into something really useful.

Though maybe we should note that Etsy finally did something to side with its supply sellers, no matter how lame the effort.

just bitchy said...

Oh, and I don't give a shit what type of argument this is, I don't like when people use the etsy forums as their personal blog.

It is advertising and promotion dressed up as "business advice" and it's total bullshit.

I don't cut anyone slack, but people who over-post and do the "look at me, look at me" thing when they have little business experience and even less business experience outside of etsy get a double dose of my scorn.

I see so much bad "advise" on the etsy forums it makes my head spin.

There are many more people who have much more experience and probably would give good advise, but they can't be heard over the bullshit.

Peldyn said...

right, Etsy: Your place for touchy feely goodness with no business stuff to make you feel bad!

The Righteous One said...

"I see so much bad "advise" on the etsy forums it makes my head spin."

My favorites are the legal advice threads or about business licenses and taxes - trainwrecks, oh wonderful explosive glory!

It always goes the same way

'take advice, I've been on Etsy 6 months!'
'No! take MY advice! I've been in business for 10 years!'
'what about hobbyists?'
'they shouldn't be selling'
'talk to a lawyer/local SBA or BBB'
'ask Etsy'
*Lock* Please respect all members of the community

The fun is to see how many of those points it hits before someone is insulted for not knowing or doing something.

just bitchy said...

Etsy's use of the lock has long been inappropriate.

I think there are better examples of how poorly they run their forums than this particular thread.

I've been part of a number of forums for many years (some heated and political) and I've only seen three people banned and 5 threads locked.

Etsy clearly has no fucking idea how to deal with a forum and that transcends this particular thread.

They really should just close the forum down and use the platform for announcements and bugs. It really is a huge resource drain. Add to it the number of people who have learned to game the system for advertising or learned how to skillfully force a lock just goes to show that etsy is being manipulated with the rest of us regardless of the forum decorum suggestions and rules.

j. hart photography said...

i'm sorry but i've seen posts get WAY more out of hand and hurtful and not get shut down. i can't believe they shut down both those posts.

what the heck are the rules???

NeverEverAmy said...

I'm going to have to go with what just bitchy is saying. Honestly, as soon as I saw who the OP was, I stopped caring. She has that effect on me (and on others, it seems), possibly because it seems as if she can never stop going on about herself.

If this insta-apathy means I'm 'missing the point' or whatever, oh well -- I'm not displeased another one of her attention-grabs got shut down even if it was a lame move on the part of the admin.

impetuous said...

just bitchy says:
"Add to it the number of people who have learned to game the system for advertising or learned how to skillfully force a lock just goes to show that etsy is being manipulated with the rest of us regardless of the forum decorum suggestions and rules."


absofuckinlutely

webster said...

advise: verb
advice: noun

The consultant will advise a client on business strategies.
She gave advice on how to run a shop.

AA shouldn't be doing either.

The Malevolent One said...

Thinly veiled promos make me wanna upchuck my Cheerios just as much as you. But that's a whole other post. Or six. You want us to cover that? Then write something up and send it on over. Otherwise we're gonna bitch about whatever we feel like at the moment. It's not like the source material is going to dry up.

Peldyn said...

so true, the well doesn't look like it is going to run dry anytime soon, if ever!

impetuous said...

the malevolent one said...
"Thinly veiled promos make me wanna upchuck my Cheerios just as much as you. But that's a whole other post. Or six. You want us to cover that? Then write something up and send it on over. Otherwise we're gonna bitch about whatever we feel like at the moment. It's not like the source material is going to dry up."

I think people were just questioning the statement about closeing a "business" thread. Everyone knows Amys threads are always promotions so its kind of hard to care whether or not Etsy shut that one.

I guess if you posted this:

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5673418

and tried to find a group of people who gave a shit whether or not it was closed because it's talking about doing "business" you'd have a hard time of it too...

just bitchy said...

Bitch on, oh Malevolent one.

You have an endless supply of bullshit to bitch about.

dis little piggy said...

I love CraftDiner.

The Malevolent One said...

Impetuous, did you get lost on your way over to etsysellerswhosuck? Check what Righteous said way up above. Decreasing overhead by streamlining supplies purchases is a valid business topic no matter what knob started it. Don't make me send Cranky on over there with a ball gag.

Justbitchy, just for you, we'll serve up a hot mess of promo bullshit later this week.

dis little piggy said...

A ball gag won't work. It's easy to type in a ball gag.

I'm doing it right now!

The Cranky One said...

::::Rushes in with ball gag::::

Did someone call? I didn't wash it from the last time, so it's got a little puke on it, just a little... Where's Imp?

::::pulls back curtain::::

Impyyyyy... Where are youuuuuu? get your ass over here and shut the fuck up. Don't make me get the whip. Oh but you like that don't you little kink?

forum rubbernecker said...

Why does Etsy love certain self promotion whores so much and rush in when their feelings get hurt? It's got to be all about the money, because it sure as shootin' isn't the unique and lovely quality of their product or their sage business advice. I. Just. Can't. Take. It. Anymore. I do understand that Etsy shut down a valid discussion about a business' bottom line, but it was a train wreck and the OP and Etsy would have been much better served by a thread that said "I personally am buying no new supplies for 3 months, what are you doing to help your business' bottom line?".


*vows to find out who impetuous is because I agree with them so frequently*

impetuous said...

No need for the gag this time cranky. If you guys have an agenda I'll shut up and listen.

somuchforopenbitching said...

wow. a gag? is that Etsy Bitch's way of "locking" comments on this site? looks like bitching is not allowed on Etsy Bitch. at least not any bitching that disagrees with the admin...er, I mean Head Bitches.

The Cranky One said...

Of course we have an agenda Imp, we fucking hate what etsy's doing.

The fact people turn on each other in the forums is because of Etsy being a fucking waste of air when it comes to business issues, that's all. We're all for bitching , just try to keep the gun pointed in etsy's direction more than to people at your sides.

Once Etsy get's it's ass in gear, which I admit is looking unlikely, the chances are you won't give a shit what other folks say, and the forums will die a quiet death when no one either needs or cares for etsy's "help" anymore.

Bitch away. Just stop beating on the same posts over and over. It stresses out our database. XD

The Malevolent One said...

Somuchforopenbitching - ball gag = joke. Loosen up.

Look people, we know there's sellers who rub you the wrong way. Us too. But not every post is gonna be about forum ijits, okay?

MajorFuckingEtsyBurnout said...

I didn't read the whole thread (and I admit your personal business plans don't need to be announced)....BUT, unless someone posted somewhere in there saying "Hey bitchface, I hate you and I don't wanna buy your cheapass shit stained supplies anymore because you suck donkey cocks!" well then why is a discussion of using up your inventory before buying new being closed down?

I wonder if someone posted "Don't buy any more t-shirts when you already have a closet full of 20!!"...would that thread be hysterically shut down because it hurts the feelings of t-shirt makers??

BUSINESS has never been and will never be a candy land filled with unicorns. Why can't this be discussed????

Caethes said...

forum rubbernecker said...
the OP and Etsy would have been much better served by a thread that said "I personally am buying no new supplies for 3 months, what are you doing to help your business' bottom line?".

.................

Thought that. As for the idea being common sense? Well, there's a fair number out there apparently without any, let alone business or financial sense, so if the whole thing was better handled/phrased, it could have been valuable, if only to save a few marriages. Can't help feeling a few of the more desperate pleas for sales are a thin veil over "Help! I maxed out the CC on pretty toys and now hubby's going to kill me!"

But maybe I'm just cynical.

Anyway, I quite like the OP. Reminds me of my small cousins - all happy and innocent and enthusiastic, full of joy and bright colours. Cute.

Morgana said...

"Why does Etsy love certain self promotion whores so much and rush in when their feelings get hurt?"

Oh, you mean like when ThaiDreams called me "a fat, ugly, lazy typical American bitch"? You didn't see that one get locked! Every post they made was shameless promotion. There tends to be some serious patterns forming here.

lessa said...

I don't think it was the suggestion that suppliers took offense at so much as the timing. It occurred about a week after the change when supplies and vintage saw their sales tank. To then a week later and see someone promoting to not buy anymore supplies for an entire month probably hurt a bit. Like kicking someone when they are down.

I understand the business strategy and its a good one(the not constantly renewing is a good one too). Bad timing was all.

impetuous said...

Cranky says:
"Of course we have an agenda Imp, we fucking hate what etsy's doing."

In this case, I love what Etsy did because whether they knew it or not these types of threads do more harm than good for Etsy as a whole.

NO ONES customers should be corralled into a thread and lead off site. Don't really care whos customers they are or for what reason they are being corralled.

Don't care why the thread was closed just glad it was. Is it OK to say that here? Or am I hurting someone's feelings and pointing the gun in the wrong direction?

Laura said...

I just found this site and I'm totally shocked. I've had a great etsy experience - in fact, the only trouble I've had has been from unprofessional sellers.

I get wanting to have your voice heard, but seriously is it so bad you have to have a whole blog?

shannon said...

It's better to discuss certain problems off etsy. Blogs are an easy and fast way to do so.

Simone said...

"I get wanting to have your voice heard, but seriously is it so bad you have to have a whole blog?"

Yep. Not that this is my blog, but yes, it really is that bad. Which is particularly disappointing because Etsy is a good idea with lots of potential to be a great thing.

Of course plenty of people can cruise along and not see (or perhaps just not notice) the ugly side of Etsy. But if and when you do, you'll find it can be pretty ugly indeed. Sad, but true.

Let's hope it won't always be that way.

The Gypsy Jewels said...

I agree with imp..the way the thread was percieved was how it was taken..
Feeling hurt? Nope just a clueless OP that didn't think her title or what she was "trying" to help with..

Laura just wait..you'll soon be as disillusioned as the rest of us..

Wendy said...

Sorry, the malevolent one, you're just wrong here. Coming fast on the heels of an Etsy search change that has been a debacle for supply sellers, this thread was just plain cruel. Applause to CraftDiner for hanging in there.

Etsy Bitch will earn my applause when you hold Etsy accountable for their disastrous search change, and their utter failure to respond to vintage & supply sellers calling for a fair search.

Etsy's continuing silence and secrecy about their search & business plans just heaps scorn on every V&S seller.

lurker said...

laura said...
I get wanting to have your voice heard, but seriously is it so bad you have to have a whole blog?

--------
Unfortunately, yes it is that bad, Laura.
I've been a seller on etsy for 2+ years
with hundreds of sales.

It's really that bad; this blog is necessary for some of us who appreciate the idea of etsy but feel like we're hitting our heads against the wall trying to make it better.
I have a lot invested in etsy and it's frustrating to see the monumental problems.

just bitchy said...

Yes, it is that bad.

For example, people have been begging for what is standard on most shopping carts, multiple shipping options and size and color choices, for years and nothing.

Years.

There is a 6 month honeymoon and then people start to see the real issues and problems under the cupcakes and unicorns and shameless PR.

The Malevolent One said...

Imp, you're free to disagree with our perspective. If you have issues with the thread, fine, talk about 'em like you did in your last post. But this isn't a platform for personal vendettas against specific sellers. Check our sidebar where it says "About This Blog". That isn't lip service. We mean it. We care about how fucked up the SITE is, not the people who inhabit it. It's pretty fucking tiresome to post about real issues and have people descend on one seller or another like a pack of harpies. It distracts from real problems as opposed to one individual who in the larger scheme of things is meaningless.

Wendy, we don't care if we earn your applause. We're not here to serve one particular group's agenda. The only agenda we have is the one in the sidebar. Maybe we think the search change is awesome. Maybe we hate it. Maybe we just haven't gotten around to talking about it - as previously mentioned, there's a wealth of bitch-fodder available. If you care so much about that issue then put your money where your mouth is and write something and send it to us.

Ladies Auxilliary said...

laura:

I used to be a very active Etsy-promoter but after several horrendous run-ins with Etsy Admins, yes...I'm this unhappy and embarrassed that I ever promoted them like that.

The Bullshit Artist said...

If Etsy were really so concerned with their seller's feelings, then perhaps they should shut down the virtual labs and stop teaching them how to make the crafts their sellers are selling. LIke banners, lip balm and the exciting new list for July! Take a gander: http://tinyurl.com/6fz84p

If all Etsy was was a supply website I could see teaching people crafts they would need to buy the supplies for. But when you start overstepping the line and start teaching your little crafters how to make the things your sellers are selling......well, I just don't think you are considering their feelings very well at all.

lessa said...

A bunch of sellers asked about Etsy sponsoring a Christmas in July promotion. Which is a really good idea for handmade items. If you want a hand knit sweater for your Dad, you can't contact a seller three weeks before Christmas and expect to get it. Many sellers stop taking custom weeks before some people are even thinking about shopping because the time it takes to make. Start people thinking now about things they may want to special order.

Nope, why do something to help encourage sales, lets show the few buyers on Etsy how easy it is to make what is already being sold on Etsy so they will set up their own shop. Yeah!

The bonus is they'll also have lots of new stuff to put into the Etsylabs shop to compete with their paying customers.

Heather said...

I just found this site and I'm totally shocked. I've had a great etsy experience - in fact, the only trouble I've had has been from unprofessional sellers.

I get wanting to have your voice heard, but seriously is it so bad you have to have a whole blog?
________________________

Laura, I recently found this (and a couple other) blogs - within the past few days. My experience on etsy has been pretty positive - I think I'm a successful seller, I've bought a lot and have a lot of great things to say about the site.

But there was something underneath I didn't feel good about...I couldn't pin anything on it. Sort of like when you look at the ocean and it's so pristine and beautiful but you know there are crabs and other pinchy things right below the surface. That feeling.

And then one morning all the threads I posted on were closed. And I felt like I was in some sort of no speech twilight zone or something - the thread closures were so arbitrairy! Just completely done on a smiley-happy-joy-joy admin's whim. It was then I found this (and a few other) blogs and had my feelings validated.

I'm so glad the bitches are here! Read a little more, and you might be too.

The Sparkly One said...

Hey guys,
We are really glad and appreciate that EB has become a place where people feel safe enough to air their frustrations with Etsy. We would like to keep it a place to do just that, and not air dirty laundry about other sellers. One of the things that we keep seeing asked for is consistency and for admin to only penalize people based on whatever infraction crossed the line, not on their history in the forums. Well, it works both ways. Just because the person who started the thread has a history of spammish behavior, it doesn't make the closing of THIS thread any more justifiable.

We REALLY don't want to have to moderate comments that trash specific sellers. I for one am really lazy, and really don't want to have to make the effort.

impetuous said...

righteous says:
"Stop serving the self-interests of one group by shutting down relevant and meaningful strategy talk."

I don't think the thread was relevant "meaningful strategy talk." whatever the fuck that means.

So I am left to wonder why Etsy Bitch thinks it IS since we have so often agreed. For me, agreeing that this particular thread has worth, is siding with a group of sellers that think the forums are their personal promoting platform.

I'm sorry if that seems ad hominem to you but when you point to a thread and proclaim it to be a totally worthwhile discussion, closed down by Etsy, don't expect people to just take what you think as gospel and start randomly bitching along with you.

I wouldn't do that for an Etsy cheerleader and I wouldn't do it for an Etsy Bitch either.

*puts on steampunk helmet and waits for the next article*

The Kinky One said...

Seeing a certain OP can be enough for the little doors in my mind to snap shut and move onto the next thread. Many of us have certain sellers and/or buyers who tick us off so bad we want to put our fist through a wall - Etsy Bitch is not really about that. We're bitchin about the problems with Admin not trying to target certain sellers.

Obviously there are exceptions, like the fraudulent bead seller or poking fun at a cupcake quote. But in general if you are one of Etsy's customers you are not a target of the Bitches. Shit, that would be like aiming the gun back at ourselves since we're customers too.

impetuous said...

"If Etsy were really so concerned with their seller's feelings, then perhaps they should shut down the virtual labs and stop teaching them how to make the crafts their sellers are selling."

That's a good fucking point!
*puts helmet back on*

The Malevolent One said...

Impetuous, you just don't fucking get it. Read what Righteous and Kinky said. And then go look up what "ad hominem" means.

We're not going to change our position because one random commenter has a bug up her ass about one random seller. Deal with it.

just bitchy said...

Etsy allowing certain people to run wild in the forums despite blatant rule breaking is just as bad as etsy locking threads on valid discussions.

Etsy has no idea how to run a forum.

They have no idea how to be impartial, fair or equitable. They play favorites, they kiss the asses of certain sellers and they allow certain people to break rules.

It's all related IMO and my suggestion is to chose your examples more carefully.

This was a very bad example to highlight etsy's ineptitude since it's all mixed in with favoritism.

The Cranky One said...

The point of this post was there was a civil conversation about business strategy and someone got their widdle fweelings hurt when someone suggested not buying hit you don't need when you are trying to stay profitable, and just to see what you can do without it, especially when the economy is fucking shit.

Supplies are not just for jewelry makers, asshats! ("I bet you think this song is about you")

We all need supplies of various sorts, be it thread, or plastic mustaches. So get whatever your personal storefront is out of your mind. If you don't HAVE to have it, and can cut down your impulse supply buying (I have four colors of pink thread, but not THAT color of pink thread!) you save money and maybe have a creative epiphany.

THAT IS ALL THIS WAS ABOUT. Responsibility with money and not being a spendthrift and blowing your profit on shit you probably don't need.

It was a challenge to try the old fashioned ethic of "make do". What can you come up with if a really cool way to make a beadcap that not only gave your pieces an original look, but didn't require you to buy some? Would you try to make that if you were cutting costs and could just run out for it?

That's the point of the conversation folks, see what you can do WITHOUT IT for a month, see where your creativity and profits go when you don't use the easy availability of supplies, whatever they may be, and spend that money when you may not actually need it.

Now grow the fuck up and stop reading into the OP as if it was attacking you, it was attacking etsy for killing a genuine business idea conversation before it got nasty because someone ran to mommy saying that they got hit, when they really didn't.

The Malevolent One said...

just bitchy said...
Etsy allowing certain people to run wild in the forums despite blatant rule breaking is just as bad as etsy locking threads on valid discussions.


It certainly is, justbitchy. I can think of several people allowed to run wild, all much, much worse than the OP in this particular thread. She's a bad example to use if you're looking to highlight Etsy's favouritism.

But again, this is not about the OP. If the thread had been started by anybody else the point would remain the same.

I think majorfuckingetsyburnout illustrated it pretty well. If a screenprinter suggested that screenprinters should stop buying t-shirts until they've used up all their t-shirt blanks as a way to save money, and t-shirt makers started screaming foul and demanding Etsy lock the thread, I'd call bullshit on that too.

I absolutely agree with everything you said about Etsy's inability to remain impartial. I think this example illustrates it quite well, just in the opposite way you do.

the stinky one said...

This discussion has derailed just like every single one on Etsy ever has. People find their own points to discuss rather than the point trying to be made in the original post.

caethes said...

The more I think about it, the more I reckon Etsy was right to lock the thread. And all similar ones. And any other thread (past or present) that offers any suggestions about how to run a business, be it based on common sense or experience.

Wandering through a (completely unrelated) thread last night I came across someone who said that "Someone said we weren't allowed to buy supplies for a month"
Quite obviously had no idea who, why ,where or what was surrounding it. Just that "someone said we weren't allowed to"

It is in Etsy's best interests to cultivate the sheep. Close down discussions of business practice so they don't end up with sellers having confusion-induced nervous breakdowns all over the place. Just imagine the mess.

Baaah!

just bitchy said...

caethes said...

Wandering through a (completely unrelated) thread last night I came across someone who said that "Someone said we weren't allowed to buy supplies for a month"
Quite obviously had no idea who, why ,where or what was surrounding it. Just that "someone said we weren't allowed to"

---------

OMG...

Etsy is a perfect example of the clueless leading the clueless.

The Kinky One said...

Yep Stinky One, this did derail. I think it's our first derailment.

**watching the shiny train crash**

impetuous said...

Cranky says:
"Now grow the fuck up and stop reading into the OP as if it was attacking you, it was attacking etsy for killing a genuine business idea conversation before it got nasty because someone ran to mommy saying that they got hit, when they really didn't."

hmm. You say I don't understand your point because I am focussing on the seller but then you make a whole big long post about the validity of the sellers business idea. You say, as quoted above, you were attacking Etsy for killing a genuine business thread, so I guess you think it was one.

I just don't agree. wtf?

Elizabeth said...

wtf?

------

don't mess with the bitches, obviously.

The Cranky One said...

Imp - read what I posted at 11:52 AM.

and just stop already you've had your say. It wasn't about you anyway, stop already. Really, you beat that horse to death a couple days ago.

impetuous said...

It's dead? Excellent!

*wipes blood off and shines up helmet*

caethes said...

just bitchy said...
Etsy is a perfect example of the clueless leading the clueless.

.....

But are they? Clueless, I mean.

*puts conspiracy theorists hat on*
(the one lined in tin-foil)

Ideal model for ets is a small number of highly successful sellers growing into a large number of highly successful sellers. Trouble with creative, artisic peopple with more than 2 brain cells to rub together is that they get demanding. Which means etsy has to put some work in. Now, if you constantly block those demands and don't let your sellers work to the best of their limits, you lose out on SELLING fees. unless, of course, you have hordes coming through the door, buying supplies from etsy sellers and piling up the pennies in LISTING fees. If they are unsuccessful (and the "I can make that" crowd often are) no matter - there are more where they came from. If against the odds they do succeed and start getting demanding - sideline them with the other "Grumpy haters" - maybe they'll get fed up enough to leave.

option 1) etsy makes money but people have to do some work
option 2) etsy makes money and doesn't have to do any work.

Are they really so clueless?

just bitchy said...

I get what you are saying caethes and you do make sense, but I really do think etsy is clueless.

I had high hopes for the new COO, but now I wonder if she quit already since there's been no word from her and no apparent change in anything.

Always Amy said...

Wow. I guess maybe I'm the only one here who can say, I'm posting with my real account.

I appreciate the thought EB. I thought it was a bit odd but once people get over the top, that's what happens, regardless

As for those of you have a problem with me, maybe if you were using your real names I would give two shits.

eclipse said...

Hi Amy, there are a few others posting with their real names here. Not many, but some.

The Righteous One said...

"This was a very bad example to highlight etsy's ineptitude since it's all mixed in with favoritism."

This thread was tipped off to us in the comments of another of our posts. We looked at it, saw a problem, and said something about it.

If you have better examples then send them to us. The email is on the sidebar. We can't be expected to sort through every goddamn thread for every goddamn topic just because you want us to.

We ain't on your payroll!

Always Amy said...

"This was a very bad example to highlight etsy's ineptitude since it's all mixed in with favoritism."

Yup, that's it. I'm a pet. That's why I sell so well. It has nothing to do with working my ass off all the time. It has nothing to do with marketing all across the net, building my business for 4 years (yes, I had my own B&M before I came here). Yup, it's because Etsy likes me. They like me bestest. :)

*sticks out tongue*

You all can think whatever you want, post whatever you want & bitch about whatever you want. :) Even me. But log in with your real accounts & put something on the line or it's not worth a shit to anyone. Don't you realize that.

just bitchy said...

I've been bitching along with the rest of you since I found this board, I've said you bitches rock and I mean it, this is a great place to chronicle the bullshit that takes place on etsy and I appreciate all your efforts.

This is the only post I've read so far here that I didn't agree with 100% so I'm a bit puzzled why you bitches are all taking this so personally.

Step back for a minute. If we are ONLY supposed to agree in the comments then just say so and I'll refrain from sharing the occasional differing opinion. I can assure you that my differing opinions will be very few and very far between. You hit the nail squarely on the head just about 100% of the time.

No one was attacking you bitches, just pointing out that this is a more complicated issue than it may seem at first glance.

I haven't had the need to email you anything because you all seem to be very much in tune with the daily madness.

Whatever...

Now, I'm off to figure out a way to sell "self-awareness" on etsy as a handmade product so that the know-it-all forum hogs who really know nothing might get a clue and STFU with their inanities.

You bitches rock.

impetuous said...

cranky, are you sure the horse is dead?
say the word and I'll start swinging again.

dis little piggy said...

"As for those of you have a problem with me, maybe if you were using your real names I would give two shits."

"But log in with your real accounts & put something on the line or it's not worth a shit to anyone. Don't you realize that."

FYI, when you claim that you don't care, yet still take the time to respond, it kinda shoots down your position of nonchalance.

Always Amy said...

I'm done here. This is ridiculous. You think you are accomplishing something with all this 'bitching' but you are all just here to stroke your egos & put everyone else under the microscope but none of you are volunteering to do the same. Turn about is fair play, but not here.

This is why puppet accounts are bs.

Always Amy said...

I don't care what you think about me. :) Which is why I said you are free to bitch about me all you want. Say what you like. Hate me. Love me. Get over it.

Fact is, that you aren't anyone. You are scared & faceless & nothing. What's to worry about.

Sorry, but posting an observation about you hiding behind the curtain isn't the same as caring what you think. :)

Have fun everyone. I'm done with you.

Elizabeth said...

done twice!

*hahahahahahahahaha*

dis little piggy said...

"I don't care what you think about me. :)"

Ummm, once again, yes you do care or you wouldn't be posting about not caring.

Don't feel bad about missing this point. Common sense is anything but.

You also shouldn't lie. We know you'll be back. Maybe not to post but to read, definitely.

The Righteous One said...

justbitchy, we just don't want every discussion about Etsy to derail into attacks on particular sellers or OPs.

Ok, so you all can't agree because you don't like the OP. Fine, but then look past that and see the issue. Still disagree, ok fine, you feel it wasn't a real business issue. We still do and will move along with that discussion.

But we are getting really really tired of the harping on other sellers that some people just cannot seem to quit doing.

We aren't trying to quell dissention, hell, there are 10 of us. Do you think we all agree all the time? But we want the "this OP sucks, why did you choose this one?" to stop. We chose it because it was pointed out to us. Got something to say about the issue we posted about...then say it. But don't blast other Etsy customers in the process.

We try to not take ourselves too seriously. We're here to talk about what needs to be changed about Etsy and lighten the mood in the process (that's what snark is for). But there have been so many instances of comment attacks that we're getting mighty sick of it.

just bitchy said...

That's cool righteous one.

I haven't seen many other slaps against specific people, but I don't read the comments most of the time unless I've made a comment in a particular topic.

I have kept my bitchy commentary about general situations until this particular thread. My apologies for adding to the problem.

I honestly didn't know it was becoming or had become a problem.

The Righteous One said...

That's understandable, justbitchy.

We also know that some people (I'm not referring to you) have bad habits developed from being on the Etsy forums.

bad bad no! we have rulers to smack the hands of those people...or ball gags. Depends on who it is lol

just bitchy said...

I will admit the ball gag scares me...

;-)

Kali said...

Always Amy said..."Fact is, that you aren't anyone. You are scared & faceless & nothing. What's to worry about."

----------------------------

Hmm, Project Chanology, anyone?

disgruntled customer said...

AA is a terrible example of an etsy artist. All she does is glue cheap plastic buttons onto metal posts and sells them at 300x the cost. I personally bought a ring and earrings from her and they fell apart after she bullied me into leaving her a positive feedback.

Peldyn said...

Hmmm... I have been posting under my real name. No hiding here.

eclipse said...

I have to agree with the Righteous one here. In this instance I don't have any specific feelings one way or the other on the OP. I never noticed her before. But in general terms, you have to look at Etsy's policies and actions without getting too distracted by your personal feelings about the users. Take banning for example. When the Etsy 5 were banned last year, there were the two "obvious" camps: people who liked us and were against the banning, and people who disliked us and were for the banning. These groups took the positions you'd expect them to take. But there was also a sizable third camp and these people I have immense respect for: people who said "I don't especially like them and often disagreed with them, but they didn't do anything to deserve to get banned and the case was handled badly". Those people overcame their emotions and used reason.

If an injustice is done to someone I dislike, it's still an injustice. There's a bigger picture and the point is that next time, it could be someone you like, or it could be you.
Every time we fight amongst ourselves like children I feel Etsy admins smiling because the focus is deflected from the real issues for a moment.

yeah you right said...

I was in the third camp :)

No one should be silenced
At the same time, if rules are enforced equitably than it shouldnt get to that point anyway.

eclipse said...

Well then let me thank you, yeah you right! Of course I appreciated the support of my friends last year but I also really respected the third camp. Those posts stood out to me- people who get it. The big picture. It doesn't bother me that not everyone likes me, that's just life. Heck I don't like most people but it doesn't mean I want any harm to come to them.

Donttazemebro said...

I'm all for constructive debate but why all the language EB chicks? I would take you more seriously if you didn't sound like you were trying to hard to sound cool.

The Malevolent One said...

Donttazemebro, because this is EtsyBitch, not EtsyTeaAndCrumpets. If you don't like it, just ignore it.

And back on topic - since some people cannot understand what we mean by don't trash specific people, we've decided to disable comments on this post.