Sunday, June 22, 2008

Discrepancy in Tagging Vintage

Based on an Auxiliary post, people were confused as to whether the tag 'commercial' is necessary for vintage items. Especially since the help above the tags when listing an item says the tag is needed for supplies, but there's no longer a mention of vintage.

Even more confusing is that the little popup to choose commercial as the second tag no longer comes up. Well, I took a look at the Dos and Don'ts for clarification. Here's what the tagging help guide said:

Vintage (not handmade by you, 20 years or older): Vintage Category only. Tag with commercial.
So yes, a vintage item without a tag "commercial" is mistagged!

Even better yet, this is what the Storque article announcing the recent category changes says:

Make sure your listings comply with Etsy’s policies. In short, any item not handmade by you (or a member of your collective if you qualify as one) must be tagged with the word commercial. Commercial Supplies may only be listed in the Supplies category, and must have commercial as one of the tags. Unaltered vintage items must be at least 20 years old, may only be listed in the Vintage category, and must have the tag commercial. Sellers who refuse to follow these rules may be penalized.
You hear that...PENALIZED! Yet they were FEATURED!!!!

Etsy, get your head out of your ass!!!!!!

30 Comments:

Wende said...

Seriously? I thought when they changed the search option, an no longer included vintage in the search--the commercial was dropped. We're no longer prompted to do so. OY.

I have tags to fix.

Again.

Simone said...

Maybe Etsy think that being featured in a finds email is a way to be penalised!?

eclipse said...

Can someone penalize me by featuring me please? And then buy lots of my stuff, that would really teach me a lesson.

The Righteous One said...

I feel bad for the vintage sellers, Etsy just can't seem to make up its mind!

And admin obviously doesn't know which hand it's shitting in when they don't even know their own tagging rules.

How are sellers supposed to know them?

Oh, and my apologies for overusing exclamation points...it just felt right lol

And one more thing said...

The Righteous One said...

And admin obviously doesn't know which hand it's shitting in...
------------------

Best quote evaaaar...

I am going to start looking at the Listings in Etsy Finds emails every day now. I'm curious, if they can get through just ONE day w/o featuring *ahem penalizing* at least one mass produced item, mis-tagged item, a listing with a link to their website where they sell the same thing for less item, etc. etc. etc.

So, listen up Etsy Finds: Stop taking pictures of your baby, and get your head in gear. And if your slumming the task out to someone else-tell 'em the rules or here's a CRAZY idea: PROOF IT! Not hard.

impetuous said...

tag talk bad.
tag bitch good!

Heather said...

Silly bitches...following the rules yourself that you make up isn't indie! Or Hip! And etsy must be Hip at all costs.

it can't just be stupidity, can it? said...

I am only sure of one thing these days:
Passing drug tests must not be in the job requirement at Etsy.

Are they all stoned?

wb said...

"I feel bad for the vintage sellers, Etsy just can't seem to make up its mind!"

Rob once said that allowing vintage was a huge mistake that needed to be rectified immediately.

But I guess he decided to take their 20 cents and just drive them insane instead of getting rid of them.

Wende said...

I'm not sure if anyone here is interested: but I did hear back from admin and was told that the D&D's WERE up to date. AND that we are no longer required to use the word Commercial.

impetuous said...

so that means vintage will show up in handmade searches that use vintage as a search term.

can these people make up their fuckin minds already?

The Righteous One said...

wende, that just adds to the wtf factor because evidently the D&Ds aren't up to date.

Thanks for letting us know what admin said. They are so clearly unaware of the information they're providing.

el-stinko-armpit said...

wb said: Rob once said that allowing vintage was a huge mistake that needed to be rectified immediately.

--------------------------

Did Rob ever tell the Etsy community that Etsy actually sent recruiting msgs to sellers on online antiques malls back in the day? If a site is gonna allow supplies, even as destash, I can see allowing vintage items that are too worn or damaged to be worth the postage sold -as is- on Etsy as vintage supplies for repurposing. Otherwise, nope. Why compete with older established venues whose seller lists have contracted significantly over the last 5 years? Vintage clothing/accessories do well on Etsy because the wearability is better than the handmade clothing offered. And the prices are way lower -- a bad thing for the handmade sellers, and contrary to the stated purpose of Etsy's homepage. Just really, really stupid.

Callooh Callay said...

I don't want to get into a snarky anti-vintage thread--we get enough of that on Etsy. Just wanted to say the info about tagging commercial is wrong, it's not needed (so yes, why hasn't it been updated?). And vintage shouldn't show up in a handmade search if vintage is the first tag.

j. hart photography said...

oh boy. what a mess.

confused said...

el-stinko says

"Vintage clothing/accessories do well on Etsy because the wearability is better than the handmade clothing offered"

wtf do you mean by that?

impetuous said...

I was thinking the same thing confused but armpit is only just learning how to bitch so I gave him a pass.

"Jealous much Veronica?" said...

Etsy couldn't find their asses with a flashlight in one hand and a butt plug in the other. So embarrassing to just announce rules & changes that make no sense-then post in forums one version, send the email to 30% of users, not update the official rules, and send additional emails to other folks saying something else. What the? No wonder Etsy Bitch exists.

eclipse said...

impetuous said...
so that means vintage will show up in handmade searches that use vintage as a search term.
...
no, the new default search (handmade only) will exclude anything that has vintage as the first tag.(everything in the vintage category) Whether or not it uses commercial as a second tag. It also excludes anything in the supplies category IF the tag commercial is also used. (handmade supplies are not excluded)
If vintage is a second tag or third, etc, and the category is a handmade category, then it will show up in the default search.

But they should update the do's and don'ts if it's no longer needed to tag vintage as commercial.

impetuous said...

I know that if you tag something supplies and get rid of the commercial tag your stuff shows up in handmade searches. There are some suppliers using that loophole.

Handmade can't filter out the tag supplies because there are handmade supplies and it can't filter out the word vintage because it is used in the tags of handmade items that have vintage components.

I believe the search as it is now includes vintage and supplies in handmade searches but omits them if they are tagged commercial.

There was a thread about it during the search change, that people were just taking out commercial in order to get into the handmade search.

But anyway, who the fuck knows what they are doing and they don't enforce the rules anyway!

Callooh Callay said...

Nope--try it out. Search for something, say necklaces, with the handmade search, and any necklaces with vintage as the first tag will not come up. Necklaces made with vintage components (which are tagged jewelry first, then vintage later) do come up, but that's because they're considered handmade.

But there are things mistagged all the time, either intentionally or (probably more often) because it's damn confusing!

eclipse said...

Yes, supplies does have to have the commercial tag to be excluded, this is because the handmade supplies are included. But the entire vintage category is excluded, with or without a commercial tag. So it really isn't necessary anymore from a technical standpoint but the D&D still say to include it so I guess you still should.
Using common sense at Etsy isn't allowed, you have to follow the written rules. (if they are even written down, some aren't)

If you want another stumper, try to figure this out:

PATTERNS is for handmade patterns only, right?
when you choose a top level category of "patterns" for a new listing, the next box shows the question:
"Is this pattern your original design (handmade) or commercially produced?"
and the second tag is no longer a textbox, but is drop down menu with the only choices being handmade or commercial.
Why is "commercial" a subcategory of patterns, when only handmade patterns can even be listed in the patterns category?

impetuous said...

eclipse.
you just blew my mind.
does that help resellers in some way?

The Righteous One said...

Ah!!! Nice catch eclipse :) I wonder if it automatically filters those into the supplies category?

I might have to test it with a listing.

eclipse said...

I don't know who it helps or hurts but mostly it just CONFUSES sellers and probably leads them to miscategorize commercial patterns in the wrong place. Someone from content will probably delete their store for putting all their commercial patterns in the patterns category, when the Etsy listing process seemed to encourage putting them there.

el-stinko-armpit said...

confused said...
el-stinko says

"Vintage clothing/accessories do well on Etsy because the wearability is better than the handmade clothing offered"

wtf do you mean by that?
--------------------------------

I actually click on women's clothing items when I see 'em on the homepage (and I am a 'her' not a 'him', my nym is just misdirection, er was...). Anywho, I am continually amazed by dresses made to fit bust 28 inches. WTF??? Tops sized XL that fit up to bust 33 inches. Circa 1960 high fashion models fit into dresses with a 34 inch bust. The 'miss america' dream girl was a 36. I guess now these are considered plus sizes by those who design for Amy Wino and Mary Kate -- living darkside Blythe dolls that they are!

Not that there aren't sellers who make items to order, or make a wider range of sizes. But I've not seen their stuff on the homepage lately. And sometimes when a girl wants a top or dress, she doesn't want to wait. Vintage (which is not vanity sized) is for women who, like, have boobs.

eclipse said...

To add to the tagging issue about vintage, I just got an email stating Etsy would ectend vintage and supplies listings by 4 months. Here is an excerpt:

"Only properly tagged listings will get the four month extension, so this is a great opportunity to make sure your Vintage and Commercial Supplies items are properly categorized. In other words, make sure the top tag is "Vintage" or "Supplies." In the case of Supplies, items should also be tagged with "Commercial.""


Note it mentions no requirement that Vintage be tagged commercial. I guess it is no longer a rule, but then why is it still in the D&D?

The Righteous One said...

That was my question too, eclipse. And the warning in the storque article announcing the changes was a bit unnerving. Whoever wrote that was unaware of the policy.

So there are sellers who are tagging with commercial who don't have to and others who don't that are getting flagged.

It's ridiculous and using up time and energy on both the sellers and etsy's part.

confused said...

el-stinko says

"I am continually amazed by dresses made to fit bust 28 inches. WTF??? Tops sized XL that fit up to bust 33 inches. Circa 1960 high fashion models fit into dresses with a 34 inch bust. The 'miss america' dream girl was a 36."

bitch please. North American sizing hasn't changed. the only thing that has changed is where most of the clothing is being made these days. sounds like Asian sizing to me.

let's face it the clothing category is a nightmare to search. trust me there are lots of sellers who make their clothes bigger but if you don't make the front page you don't get seen.

eclipse said...

I wonder if all the content team (who respond to flags) are even on the same page about the commercial tag?