Saturday, August 8, 2009

From the Auxillary Desk

I have an Etsy bitch. Today I learned through a customer that Etsy has disabled my account. I have not received one word of notification as to why my account has become deactivated. I have no non-delivery disputes that are open. Nothing. I emailed Etsy only to find out that my account was deactivated because of my affiliation (meaning she helped me set up my store) with another Etsy member who had a personal falling out with Etsy. Now, what right does Etsy have to terminate my account privileges without my knowledge because I had gotten help from a family friend who no longer has a relationship with Etsy?
Sadly, we are seeing this more and more.

They seem to be shutting down sellers with a history of asking questions and not offering reasons why they were shut down with a uninformative form letter, if anything. Every week we hear of another one. Voices that called out for Etsy to straighten up and behave like a company and not a clique of vengeful children are vanishing faster and faster. Now they are dipping into the "friends of our enemies" level to close down.

Shade Jewelry is gone now after a unreasonable buyer organized against him, Etsy went to far as to even delete his "Quit your day job" feature. Verybigjen was shut down last month, and she still has no idea why it was done last we heard. Are they trying to polish the turd for investors by cutting off dissenters and try to repair their quickly tarnishing image with reviewers and the press? We don't know.

If they wanted to repair any damage done to their name they could start by oh... fixing all those bugs, making improvements, getting an actual customer service team and phone numbers and be proactive by listening to and giving sellers tools that other competitors now excel at and not being forward and communicating all the recent site issues (remember those sincere sounding promises to communicate better? We knew it wouldn't stick for even a week). They could, but they won't. This is Etsy. We've screaming till we are blue in the face for over a year now, and they are dead set in thier arrogant ways.

Hell at this point we'd be pretty happy with them just not being asshats for a couple days. But we know that won't happen either.


(If you've been shut down without cause, reason or explaination - write and tell us! Provide the address of your new store and we'll link you in a future story listing all the recent closures.)

87 Comments:

vjhreeves said...

Hi Bitches,

Love your blog. Just dropping a note to let you know I am adding myself to the fleeing flock...I'm done. So far I am not closing shop, just letting it dwindle down to nothing. Nothing specific has chased me away, just tired of all the b.s. they throw at us. Will still check in here to see what shenanigans they are up to though, so keep fighting the good fight, girls!

Michelle LaBrie said...

...and the craziness continues. Stories like that are one of the major reasons I no longer have an etsy shop.

wtf said...

I don't get it. Is it Nazi-ism?

Carly said...

This does not surprise me, nothing from Etsy surprises me anymore and with the latest mess they have created, not sure how much longer I will be around.

With the lag in editing and what the buyer will see creates a potential for serious ramifications from it, Etsy is getting to be a scary place.

The Funny One said...

The big elephant in the Etsy playroom is that this is a huge business with no fuctioning customer service. Etsy also has no seller-appeals process (check the Handbook if you have 5 weeks to spare) and Etsy has been pretty heavy-handed with some accounts.

If you've ever been subjected to some of Etsy's bizarre email warnings, mutes, bans, etc., then you know that Etsy doesn't even have a fair warning system. You could have your store altered, edited and closed without any notice at all. Or you might get a series of emails that make no sense, accuse you of violations you never committed, and are NEVER SIGNED WITH AN ACTUAL NAME!

That kind of stuff sure smells personal to me, but what recourse do Etsy sellers have on a huge, humungous, very profitable site that STILL HAS NO CUSTOMER SERVICE AFTER MORE THAN 4 YEARS?!?

Check out the other sites - they all have real customer service. Etsy never will - because the focus at Etsy isn' the seller, it's how many tens of thousands of new stores set up each week and throw away listing and showcase fees by the boatload.

One thing for sure, the cash register drawer at Etsy is always open!

forum rubbernecker said...

Bitches, I love you, I really do, but shade was a FUBAR waiting to happen. Please use a better example. And VBJ was openly critical of Etsy.
This would concern me more if it was happening in case where there was:

1. no ciriticism of Etsy
2. no customer complaints
3. no other conflicts

Do you have an example of someone with no conflicts at all who was shut down? Because then we should worry.

punter said...

all these good shops are getting shut down for no reason, yet DXO launched her self-absorbed new etsy shop today. http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=7809257
how about less admin shops? where is the justice in this world??

Michelle said...

The admins could be the customer service, but they're too busy picking lame front pages, often riddled with mass marketed items, and copyright violations.

timetraveler said...

Add me to the list...I was deactivated with no warning, no explanation, just a weird email about one item out of 200 not passing their vintage qualifications. 200 items was lots of work and all my items were indeed vintage. It has been over 24 hours with no answer to my emails. This is horrible for a company to do. I no longer feel safe doing business there.

The Righteous One said...

punter, thank you for pointing out her new shop, we're attempting to keep our list updated.

BTW, she's using celebrity images...hmmm wonder if she'll get in trouble for personality copyright violations

BeautifullyWiredLynx said...

ETSY has SUCKED all along! It is nothing more then a bunch of bad energy! This comment from my latest post about this trashy site!

All of a sudden I seen this horrible earring of wound wire that looked like a piece of bubble gum stuck on the bottom of a table! Then before you know it someone with no taste puts it on the front page of etsy, and everyone and their moms copied this persons lazy attempt at creating wire work. And a pair of these horrid looking bubble gum wad earrings along with those hideous pea pod and sparrow nests not to mention that nasty lop sided flower necklace, were in so many different etsy shops, and become part of what I like to refer to as
"The Hideous Etsy Aesthetic" !!!

BeautifullyWiredLynx said...

I just flagged everything in her store. "This is not legal!
personality copyright violations! Hello!"

Lets see what happens! =)

BTW, it is so funny, that you do not allow people to post anonymously, your whole blog is anonymous!
You funny bitches! ROFL!

WindysDesigns said...

Anonymous forum rubbernecker said...

Bitches, I love you, I really do, but shade was a FUBAR waiting to happen. Please use a better example. And VBJ was openly critical of Etsy.
This would concern me more if it was happening in case where there was:

1. no ciriticism of Etsy
2. no customer complaints
3. no other conflicts

Do you have an example of someone with no conflicts at all who was shut down? Because then we should worry.
_____________________________

II agree that Shade was as you put it a FUBAR waiting to happen, but honestly, there are other sellers out there with just as bad or worse and they are still around.

As for Jen, I could understand if they had shut her shop down at the same time they muted her from the forums, it would have made more sense, at least, but they waited a year after her muting to shut down her shop. How in the world could she have been openly critical in the venue where she has no voice?

This past june was my one year anniversary from being muted from the forums. I am kind of waiting now for the day I log into a brick wall.

What is frustrating, is that there is no appeals process. After a year and 2 months, I should be able to go back and ask to be reinstated, as lack of forum participation does hurt one in certain aspects of promotion, and it doesnt lend a feeling of community when you are on the outside looking in.

In my instance, I think I should be given a second chance, but there is no one I can go to that wasn't in on the first muting. I did communicate with them at about 6 months in and they refused. But of course they were pleased with my enthusiasm in running my shop........

SK said...

forum rubbernecker said...
1. no ciriticism of Etsy
Do you have an example of someone with no conflicts at all who was shut down? Because then we should worry.

-------------------
Why should we not be able to criticize Etsy? There is nothing wrong with criticism. The root of most criticism is that it’s goal is to be constructive, RE:change!

And the rest of the onslaught of criticism — they bring that on themselves by enacting changes or edits to features without so much as a peep of preemptive warning. They are unprofessional to the hilt when it comes to communication.

I’m tired of seeing the same crap on the front page all the damned time. I’m not buying Yokoo or Lirola or RitzyMisfit or likekittysville — of course, I can’t say that in the forums or I would be permabanned and blacklisted by a bunch of morons who don’t understand why some braindead 20-something Brooklynite doesn’t put their crap on the front page 20 times a day because I would have broken the juvenile convoluted totally contrite rule of “calling out.” F’ it’s on your front page 10 times a day, every day, how is typing it in a sentence really “calling out?”

That place is run by petty, childish, petulant, small-minded children. Hopefully, someday, they are cursed with some self-awareness.

Shop closings are sad; I’m indifferent to ShadeJewelry, given that I’ve read about 15 sides of this on the net / forums… but Etsy’s unilateral attitude of “we, Etsy, can do no wrong” really is bad form and will just lead to more bad PR.

BrandingConsultant said...

The Righteous One said...
punter, thank you for pointing out her new shop, we're attempting to keep our list updated.

BTW, she's using celebrity images...hmmm wonder if she'll get in trouble for personality copyright violations
-----------------------------
My very first thought when I saw the shop. Yes, celebrity images can be violations of copyrights, especially those like Johnny Cash who have passed away. Families and legal entities protect their images for this very reason. Like Marilyn Monroe, Elvis, Hendrix and Jim Morrison are protected.

I won't even go on about how employees should not be allowed to have shops. Guess those wacky kids at Etsy HQ have never heard of CONFLICT OF INTEREST? Can't wait to see her celeb pieces in treasuries, on the FP, etc.

To the issue at hand. Without naming names, one of the sellers mentioned was a hot mess, and while fun and witty in the forums, clearly might not have been as laser focused with customer service.

With that said, Etsy should have some kind of process, formal and unbiased, in which a seller (or buyer, haven't some buyers been "banned"?) goes through an evaluation process. They could have set criteria, and give a true chance for both sides to openly and honestly discuss the issues. Much like I cannot just randomly fire an employee, or risk a law suit for unlawful termination or creating a hostile workplace or something...Etsy cannot and should not just seemingly unilaterally boot a seller.

They could publish the criteria for the community. Make it fair, unbiased, open, TRANSPARENT. Just like the employee handbook I wrote for a major retailer, they can write a seller/buyer handbook and spell it all out. Then, if someone violates a "rule" from the handbook, they go through the corrective action process, which could possibly end in a shop being closed. But, at least they were told, they knew the rules, and they were held to the same standard as everyone else in the community.

I know, I know. I probably sound like such a drag. That would be too much darn work. Shame on me for making those Etsy HQ folks actually work for their jobs (that about 10%of the rest of us don't have, btw!). It is far more fun to make their own shops, give each other spots in treasuries and front pages, draw moustaches on each others pictures and eat cupcakes in their hammocks.

Tania said...

I'm usually pretty tolerant of the Etsy crap, but this week they've ticked me off by not addressing a transaction concern with anything but a form email telling me how checkout works, and how cancelling a sale works ( gee, thanks, dipshits, like I didn't know) ignoring the question.

And that stupid glitch where buyers were not even being taken to the payment screen. Thanks. I really need to have to pester buyers who think they've paid because YOU told them so.

I've never been banned, muted or reprimanded but who knows? By not playing cute and nice, I might be next?

( oh, and since the SEO stuff, my sales have utterly gone for shit.)

beadznthingz said...

Lately, I am really starting to find Etsy's way of running a business to be a bit frightening. From the on-going favoritism, the SEO mess, the edit lags, and more bannings and closings. When will it end? I try to run my business in a professional and responsible manner. Why can't they do the same?

Thanks bitches for continually keeping us all up to date (and entertained)!

The Cranky One said...

"BTW, it is so funny, that you do not allow people to post anonymously, your whole blog is anonymous!
You funny bitches! ROFL!"

Listen, we dont care what you call yourself, just can't be anonymous, so if someone wants to comment back to you they dont have to say "to anonymous at 3:24pm" - make up a name to use here, call yourself "I hate EB" fine we don't care, just don't post as "anonymous".

Casp said...

Chris was a really bad example and you guys know it. He screwed with too many people too many times. It is nice to see that once in a while the buyer is protected. What a concept! There seems to be the endless chant the sellers make etsy successful, which is true, but who make sellers successful?

Goat said...

GMA

Everytime I think it's reached a new level of Mad Hatter's Tea Party something else happens. I wrote on my blog about Michelle closing a thread for (another made up E word) racially-directed language.

Cause, um, one poster said 'White girl speak with forked tongue.' and i said 'Oh no, you di-int.'

Never mind the grammatical nightmare 'racially-directed language- is it fucking insane.

So I guess No way, Jose., You Go Girl, Snap, just to name a few are verboten.

The Sneaky One said...

BeautifullyWiredLinx.. I am not anonymous. You can find my real name in Fortune Small Business, along with my moniker. :D Blows that theory out of the water, lol.

forum rubbernecker said...

I’m tired of seeing the same crap on the front page all the damned time. I’m not buying Yokoo or Lirola or RitzyMisfit or likekittysville — of course, I can’t say that in the forums or I would be permabanned and blacklisted by a bunch of morons who don’t understand why some braindead 20-something Brooklynite doesn’t put their crap on the front page 20 times a day because I would have broken the juvenile convoluted totally contrite rule of “calling out.” F’ it’s on your front page 10 times a day, every day, how is typing it in a sentence really “calling out?”
__________

oh, I agree with all of this! The one time I encountered Yokoo in the forums, she was a complete beotch to me. Here, dear, let me tie that scarf just a little tighter around your face.
ugh, sorry, I know we're supposed to talked others here, but that one encounter really pissed me off. No need to be like that when you get free advertising like you do. If that was me, I'd be as good as gold to everyone, and not screw the pooch, so to speak.
Of course we "should be" able to criticize Etsy, but it's not working out so well for those who do, so I stay away from it and the forums almost always, I read 'em, but lisa lock-it's trigger finger scares me.

Eveline said...

Un-fucking-believable! So now you're not allowed to ask friends for help unless they are mindless cupcakes? *sigh*

Lodestone and Ladys Mantle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Righteous One said...

ok, I let the comments through that mentioned names only because being on the FP likely makes them common knowledge. If bashing starts up beyond this point I'll have to not only moderate a little better but delete the previous comments.

Let's try to keep the focus on Etsy.

I withheld the urge to ask you to not discuss specific members or communications in a snarky and unhelpful tone LOL

forum rubbernecker said...

I withheld the urge to ask you to not discuss specific members or communications in a snarky and unhelpful tone LOL
________

is that you, lisajune?

LOL

etsy is bizarro world said...

So here is what I don't get.
This ex-member who etsy hates SO much, actually brought a friend to etsy, brought a new member to etsy and helped them register.
So obviusly this person on Etsy's hate list actually liked Etsy enough at some point to recommend it to a friend.
But then Etsy deletes the person they hate, along with any people he or she referred to Etsy????

They are obviously looking at IPs, maybe the friend logged in from the evil one's house one day. So they can ban that innocent person based on a one-time use of the evil one's IP, but they can't do anything to stop that Krazy Kunt from Waco from making new sock puppets EVERY DAY to harass etsy sellers???

marcus p. witherspoon said...

shade jewelry.. so, anyone read his feedback?

An 'unreasonable buyer'? Well, how about you try making people wait foooreeeever on $1000 rings, nont emailing back, dancing around the issue of refunds, not to one person but... so, did you read his feedback? They way people support him blindly just because he was a male forum whore is RIDICULOUS

Scooby said...

As a buyer, I have had several unfortunate run-ins with crap sellers, ie, I pay, then no product and zero communication. Etsy was swift in closing down the offending shops after the complaints from others started pouring in. This has just been my personal experience, and I was pleased with how swiftly they dealt with all of them. I also received refunds. I don't know the details about some of these other mutings and shop closings, but I think ShadeJewelry is a poor example. From what I have gleaned, etsy did the right thing, no question. Even some of his positive feedback often mentioned poor communication and loooong shipping times. Yet, strangely, he seemed to spend an awful lot of time on the forum. Hmmm.

Jerry said...

My brother had an buyer account which he used to post on the forums. It was closed with no warning or notification all of a sudden one day - it's pretty unprofessional how they do that. VERY unprofessional. They just assume 'sock puppet guilt' and close your account without even an email, a warning, anything.

It's obvious why 'shade' was closed. To act otherwise discredits this blog.

Verybigjen has been very,v ery negative about Etsy since forever and has said very nasty things to and about them on their own forum. Plus, she freelances for artfire. I'd kick her out, too.

And seriously, "we've been screaming for over a year now"... welcome to the club. Etsy members have been pointing out that etst is straight fucked for over three years now.

You're going to need better examples, like of people who were really closed for no reason.

The Righteous One said...

Jerry, you gave an example of closure for no reason and then say that we need to give you examples of closures for no reason...

you might want to lookup what happened to ArtfulMarket in early 2008

And shutting down a paying customer for criticism or because they work at a particular place is unreasonable. Any of us or you could be next. That's our point.

The Righteous One said...

Noone is akin to the ins and outs of any Etsy banning situation, so yes, we are taking the word of someone and you may be taking the word of someone else. Etsy has been known to not look at both sides and simply deal with the side of the squeakiest wheel, shutting down the wrong accounts even. (Seriously, read some of the shop closure stories on UEN from early 2008)

The point of the matter is this: Etsy has no transparency regarding their denial of service decisions. And it could be anyone for any reason who gets shut down next.

Also, should Etsy play an active role between sellers and buyers? They are only a venue after all and there is a third party arbitration via Paypal. If a seller has one buyer who has an issue that is in the process of resolution, does Etsy have a right to trump that seller's negotiations? This is the issue that is raised. Shouldn't a seller's feedback, to a certain point, be enough to warn buyers? Why does Etsy even have to shutter a store for one bad transaction out of hundreds. Maybe this is a feedback system issue as well.

The most disturbing aspect is the auxiliary story posted at the beginning of this post. And that is where the trouble lies.

Wolf said...

I put my shop in vacation mode 2.5 weeks ago, went on vacation and came back to read/hear about all sorts of fiasco's Etsy's been up to since.

None of which make me want to rush over and pull my shop back out of vacation mode, all of which make me really want to go verified on Artfire instead.

After just over 3 years on Etsy, I'm starting to think it's time to call it quits between us as far as selling through them goes.

stylesmith said...

Well...I just got perma muted.

I guess I should await a shop closure.

I'm am so over Etsy it's not even funny at this point. If it weren't for the traffic I'd be long gone.

Christina said...

Yea, Shade had some bad feedback. If Etsy's policy was to shut down members with X amount of negative feedback I'd be ok with that.

Of course we all know Etsy has favorites and doesn't apply the rules evenly.

So yea if you want to shut Chris down do so and then start shutting down people with the same/worse feedback. And for Christ's sake don't email their past customers and encourage them to file a PayPal dispute!

There are so many shops left open with far far worse feedback than what Chris had. I saw one the other day with 64 negatives. Yea 64! Of course everyone knows their admins' pet. So there they are. Open and selling.

As for examples of people's accounts being closed without reason how about MagicJelly in 2007?

Band Mom said...

My son's shop was shut down last year, with no notification whatsoever.

He has a recording studio in the basement and is in a band. He opened a shop with the intention of selling the cd's they recorded (ok per TOU, and other sellers do it).

He was even a member of the CT Etsy team, and was putting together an MP3 recording for the team to use on the team site. He was in the forum maybe 3 or 4 times (and I logged in & checked his "threads posted in" twice and saw no problems).

He went to log in one day to list their EP, and there was the brick wall. No email was ever sent to them - I know, because it was an email account that I checked regularly myself.

No worries though. They're on iTunes now, and have licensed their songs for 2 TV shows and 3 movies. Too bad for Etsy.

teawithfrodo said...

Verybigjen has been very,v ery negative about Etsy since forever and has said very nasty things to and about them on their own forum. Plus, she freelances for artfire. I'd kick her out, too.

Why? because she's said she doesn't like etsy. So you'd close a store because someone doesn't like you?
SO what she freelances for artfire. Several people have the shops in both.

unthsqu said...

considering artfulmarket now has 36,000 sales, that's clearly a situation where they goofed and it got fixed. beyond forum complainers and the prerequisite fubars is there anyone else they just shut down? any one person who couldnt have possibly gone against terms of use? if you've been shut off the forums but still have a shop, consider yourself lucky. i havent been on the forums in almost a year and sales have never been better.

eclipse said...

Marcus, Shade had 2 bad feedbacks. They were pretty bad indeed, but they were two. His overall % was above 95%.
If he was kicked off for those 2 negatives, why is this person still allowed to sell?


Why is another popular (i.e. friend of admin's, QYDJ, success story) seller with 120 Neutrals and 62 negatives still allowed to sell?

eclipse said...

"Verybigjen has been very,v ery negative about Etsy since forever and has said very nasty things to and about them on their own forum. Plus, she freelances for artfire. I'd kick her out, too."

I think VBJ had been muted off the etsy forums AND the storque for at least a year before they deleted her shop. So she could not have been saying "very bad things" about them on Etsy. She had no ability to say anything.
She did say bad things about them on other sites, but they claim that off-site activity won't be punished on Etsy.

And if you are saying they banned her because she works for artfire, you must really think they are unethical and childish! I don't think they are low enough to ban people because of where they work.
Is there some list of approved and prohibited employers?

I even think VBJ offered services to etsy for FREE (long time ago) which they ignored, then she offered the same to artfire which they used & paid for. And then Etsy copied those exact same artfire features that Jen designed a week later.

forum rubbernecker said...

She did say bad things about them on other sites, but they claim that off-site activity won't be punished on Etsy.
_____

Not ready to try out this theory.

Eveline said...

If it was the negative feedback that got Shade's account deleted, Etsy will have a HUGE job in front of them, deleting all those accounts who have tons of negative feedback..

PickandChoose said...

It's about having TOUs that mean something. There should be a due process re: muting, banning, and closing but there isn't. If there is a due process in print, it surely isn't followed.
This having to look over your shoulder no matter where you are is just not right, no matter how you want to categorize it. Childish, unprofessional, non-free market economy and worse: just like a lot of the junk now for sale and featured by Etsy staff.

This is not the way to go if you want to be a business. It's ridiculous and obviously there is no adult supervision.
My poor return customers, and poor Etsy as they all leave for my other shop. But I still have to look over my shoulder in case someone at Etsy finds an excuse to screw me, TOU's or not.
They defend themselves by lashing out and attempting to silence, but it cannot be done. It will be the downfall of at least employees; I'd like to see them clean house completely, but there is no "them" there... (to paraphrase Gertrude Stein).

justanotherdescent said...

i left etsy! :) i'm glad, i can't believe how much cheaper artfire is. sure, i'm still paying fees and making more selling all my second hand stuff on ebay, for now... but, i think artfire will build a following.

and my customers seem to keep emailing me for details as to where i went.

i'm so sick of etsy. as soon as my sales actually fell to nothing, i knew there was a problem. i've never had no sales. i believe the problem really IS etsy.

The Funny One said...

I really appreciate the focus on lack of an appeals process for sellers. Because Admin still runs Etsy like their personal boutiques, their personal choices have a direct impact on who sells and who doesn't. I would bet that Etsy-fave sellers are treated very differently from other sellers.

But all these shenanigins have been going on at Etsy for 4+ years. What puts the icing on the cupcake these days is that Etsy continues to fiddle around with MAJOR STRUCTURAL CHANGES WITHOUT NOTIFYING SELLERS UNTIL IT'S A DONE DEAL.

Please check these out:
(1) the SEO is still a complete mess - check your standings in all the major search engines, you probably aren't listed at all
(2) the "caching" delay directly affected the ability of many sellers to edit their prices in a timely manner

How sellers are treated by the bizarre Etsy "discipline" process is only one problem----------but pulling the rug out from most sellers' ability to sell on the site is another story all together.

What this spells out is that Etsy thinks about Etsy first - if it works for them and their bottom line, lightens their workload and lets them tweet all day instead, then Etsy will do it, sellers be damned.

HOW MANY TIMES CAN A SITE OF THIS SIZE MAKE MAJOR CHANGES AND THEN TELL SELLERS THAT ARE "RETRACTING THOSE CHANGES" WEEKS LATER?????

For all the issues swirling around eBay, when their sellers have a cow, eBay listens. When Etsy sellers try to start a discussion and communicate their concerns, they get
locked
muted
banned
store closed
rinse and repeat

Anonymous said...

HELP - my account is gone too, and I have NO IDEA why. I have orders I'm supposed to fill - what do I do? GAH. I'm so confused and upset, and I cannot understand this at all. Any idea what to do from here?

Ari - WAS buttercuppity.etsy.com

It Doesn't Surprise Me said...

This is one reason why I have no intention of opening shop on Etsy.

There is no rhyme nor reason to the way things are run.

Wait. There actually is: Etsy's bottom line.

~whisper~
Let's put the screws to the sellers, but let's do it with a smile on our faces so we look divinely innocent. That way, the majority of sellers will believe us when we go into the forums and say we are aware of the problem at hand and are working out a solution.
*end whisper*

The Sneaky One said...

Oh Buttercuppity, your shop looks fine to me ^_~

eclipse said...

buttercuppity I see your shop now, was it just a hiccup or was it gone and they re-activated it?

Megan McGory said...

Shade had some questionable history in his feedback...HOWEVER, 98% positive is pretty acceptable on other sites like ebay, etc. I've bought from people with 98% positive feedback before and most of the time I end up leaving positive feedback myself.

Shade's termination doesn't make sense in light of the people who have 66% positive feedback, as someone else pointed out. He wasn't a saint and I can see why they did it, but not so sure he deserved it. I'm very on the fence about it.

VBJ, don't think she deserved it. That just seemed like a heavy handed STFU. Who cares if you work for Artfire if you're still paying fees? There's just no freedom of speech.

They do need an appeals process and they need set guidelines for shop removal so these two (and others) would have a solid appeal to fight for. And the rest of us could avoid shop removal. I know I'd be pissed as hell if it happened to me.

AnonymousAgainstEtsy said...

pickandchoose said:

They defend themselves by lashing out and attempting to silence, but it cannot be done. It will be the downfall of at least employees; I'd like to see them clean house completely, but there is no "them" there... (to paraphrase Gertrude Stein).


I can tell you that mentality comes from the top. Literally. Maria is happy with how Etsy is being run, and has said that it's only gotten better since she's been here, and they always learn from their mistakes.

I think if anyone's waiting or internal Etsy change coming down from the top it's just not going to happen. Etsy is very happy with itself.

life-during-wartime said...

AnonymousAgainstEtsy said...
I can tell you that mentality comes from the top. Literally. Maria is happy with how Etsy is being run, and has said that it's only gotten better since she's been here, and they always learn from their mistakes.

I think if anyone's waiting or internal Etsy change coming down from the top it's just not going to happen. Etsy is very happy with itself.
--------------------------
Well, Maria should be thrilled to bits about Etsy getting a mention and a link in this MSN Money feature about ways to earn an extra $100 per month:
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/SaveMoney/18-ways-to-earn-100-dollars-a-month.aspx?page=2

I guess she doesn't see the problem with Etsy having the reputation as being the site where females will work for themselves at less than minimum wage to 'earn' a very small amount of walking around money. Not exactly QYDJ, is it? Good work, Maria. The founding vision statement for Etsy has been totally buried under the avalanche of bland pop-culture tie-ins and mass marketing trends you and your staff are pushing. No surprise that sellers who joined Etsy based on its original vision are leaving, voluntarily or not.

IFITQUACKS said...

I guess negative press and vibe will do nothing ill to a site that doesn't mind its reputation. As long as people will fork out the $.20, it's all good.
Sell your used aluminum lawn chairs ("vintage showcase")-- who gives a shit? The bottom line is the bottom line.
Maria gets her monthly spreadsheet -- that's probably the extent of her input other than the random "junket" to play pretend "community handmade".

Bullshit, plain and simple. If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's a fucking duck.

Combustion Glassworks said...

Another case of feedback bias..

Even the positives are negatives if you read them..

http://www.etsy.com/feedback_public.php?user_id=12140

artatisb said...

so beside artful market and the closures of shops owned by the very vocal and unhappy, has anyone come up with shops closed for really no reason

Sandra said...

Combustion Glassworks said...
Another case of feedback bias.
Even the positives are negatives if you read them..

- Yep, I have noticed this ALOT on etsy. I've also had two dealings with this particluar seller and it was quite problematic. After my experience, I went back and REALLY read the feedback. I never would have bought anything if I knew that many of the positives should have been neutrals...and negatives. REALLY flakey.

vocal said...

Being "vocal and unhappy" is not a legitimate reason for shop closure. Just to remind eveyone.

Band Mom said...

artatisb:

Yes, I posted about my son's shop being closed with no notice and no reason ever given. He only got an auto-response to his email asking why, and no further follow up. He didn't bother following up after the auto-response, because Etsy's not worth the hassle.

I'm not going to give the band name, because they don't want any public association with Etsy at this point in their promotions.

Lindsay said...

JUST GOT SHUT DOWN TODAY!!! I AM PISSED (can you tell?). I HATE having to email them and wait 10 hours between each response! I want to leave Etsy all together now!!!!!

Betsy Finds said...

Perhaps it's because it's summer, or perhaps it's because Etsy Bitch has jumped the shark.

But the frequency and level of frustration seems tepid.

Personally, I thing we've all realized that Etsy is a lost cause, and no amount of bitching will help anymore.

It seemed to help for a while, because maybe a few Admins secretly cared - but now it seems they've put up a cupcake firewall and they don't bother to respond to EB or the Forum sections for Ideas or Bugs anymore at all.

Time to move on. Bye Etsy, Bye EB, Bye to all the excellent sellers who share my frustrations and have also moved on to greater success.

Bye Maria & Stella & Dxo and any other Admins who secretly read EB. I hope you eventually get pensions and Medicare to supplement your income from bicycle-print-stuffed-ovaries.

WindysDesigns said...

Chalk another one up for the etsy buffoon squad. They muted my daugter from the forums after opening her shop 2 days ago. She asked a few newbie questions and then suddenly couldnt post, saying her forum privileges were suspended. So she checked her email and nothing. She checked back in after 1/2 hour and there was a a message that she was in violations for not disclosing both of her shops, hers and MINE. She immediately wrote Erin back explaining that she is my daughter, and had they asked, they would have gotten the full story, and that she is using my computer.

If course, we've heard nothing since and don't expect to. I'm furious that they just jump to conclusions and don't even bother to give you a chance to explain the circumstances. Besides the fact that I've been muted for over a year now, what would be my motivation to come back as someone else? If I came back I'd like all my old friends to know me as I was, not some new incarnation.

They just don't use their heads, don't bother to investigate, and don't really care about their sellers new or old.

The whole place just disgusts me.

Sue said...

I think EB needs a new squad of bitches who will actually keep up with what etsy is doing. Are you really so jaded that you won't even post about the Ullja Kuntze shit that's been happening over the last month?

kellyanne1986 said...

So etsy can close down sellers and forum posters right and left, but they can't figure out how to block Ullja Kuntze from continuing to purchase one item after another? Why can't etsy's crack admin team figure out how to close down ullja? Oops, I answered my own question.
:-(

cb said...

Etsy has gone to a new low. They must have been telling some of their sellers to go around on the net to drum up "positive" buzz. I've been noticing for the past several days that alternative marketplaces have been bombarded by these "love etsy" robots. Same thing with people's blogs.

These robots start by asking the question of "Does anyone sell on etsy?" and then they go into a spin to cause trouble of trying to convince people that etsy is the best site on the net and driving traffic to etsy.

They tried pulling the same garbage again tonight on the Bonanzle forums and I just flagged the shit out of the threads to have them deleted. I don't have anything nice to say about etsy.

Don't patronize businesses that practice bad business ethics.

BoolshitMan said...

YOu know someone at Etsy has seen it -- as they spend so much of their time twittering, & that "Ullja Kuntze shit" is everywhere online.

Thanks, fascists said...

WindysDesigns said...

-----

Yep, my brothers account that he used on the forums just disappeared one day - guess tehy thought it was a 'sock puppet' because we use the same internet connection? No warning, no email, no convo, accounts just gone all of a sudden with all the favorites, convos, etc. gone. They sure do just jump t conclusions and it's really unprofessional and insulting.

The Sneaky One said...

Sue, we've seen it. We're aware, but we're not about to take it up at this time. As far as we are aware, Etsy is actually trying to help the victims. As far as we know, the perp could be using an IP anonymizer, which makes it very hard to track down and completely shut someone down.

If you have information otherwise, please feel free to e-mail us and we will review it and decide if we should write anything on the situation.

eclipse said...

Lindsay did you get a resolution? Is your shop back?

Windy's I don't understand them punishing family members this way. When a certain many-times-muted ex-etsy-member was muted for a month last year, her husband suddenly decided he needed his own Etsy account and he started posting in the forums for that month. With a writing style uncannily similar to his wife's writing style, even down to the same spelling and grammar mistakes. Got involved in a lot of the same types of arguments, too.
When she got unmuted, he closed his account.
Go figure.

There were never any consequences for those shenanigans but now your daughter gets unfairly muted because she lives with you? And her posts were not any kind of argument or trolling or criticism, just normal newbie questions?

WindysDesigns said...

Eclipse, yes, I remember that situation as well. I'm thinking that maybe they stepped up their ways to track IP numbers or something, which is good, but how do you handle a family situation? The thing is, when she got her shop up and running she WAS going to link to my shop and I to hers. NOt because of any rules, but because I'm proud of the work she's done and would like to promote her.

I can't lie and say I didn't think that she might be a good source to announce any sales or specials I might be having (if she is around at that time)in the forums, but that is the extent I would 'use' her. She's 30 years old, after all, and has a mind of her own.

I tried to talk to her and see what she is going to do now, and she's ready to just have them close her shop. She's pretty disgusted that they cut her off before she's even gotten out of the gate. And she still hasn't heard back from them, even though she responded to Erin within minutes of receiving her email from them.

It's just pathetic that there is no recourse for us, no impartial party to listen to both sides and make a determination based on the facts and not someone who's nose got put out of joint by a comment and slapped you in the first place.

They can all kiss my ass.

Jerry said...

eclipse said:
"And then Etsy copied those exact same artfire features that Jen designed a week later."

Etsy.. copied artfire?

Artfire is such a copy of Etsy, check out their subcategories for bath and body and glass and so on...

Then, I ran into this on a programming project bid site, someone was looking for a 'clone of etsy or artfire' and got this bid:

"ManiksSoftware:
Hi, we have developed www.artfire.com which is a clone of etsy.com. We have great expertise and experience building similar sites. Please check PMB to know more about work. Thanks, Ricku Lohar"

another site shows artfire.com in their portfolio:
http://www.daniweb.com/forums/thread210650.html

If this isn't true, artfire should tell them to stop claiming it. If it is... wow, that's some handmade spirit, outsourcing your programming to India, and most likely what did they ask the Indian company to make? A clone of Etsy. So, who is copying whom? Seriously, what an absurd claim. Artfire wouldn't even exist if not for Etsy.

AFAOK said...

What I appreciate about AF is that they paid attention to the features Etsy sellers have been literally begging for for years and instituted them. I call that smart; who does what first is not as important as HOW one does it.
Yes, AF has admitted to being a clone-- have seen that statement elsewhere -- so who gives a shit? Honesty is a good thing, and any company that takes advantage of what sellers want should be the winner IMHO.
Just wish it were still juried, but "in this difficult economy" blahblahblah/

Eve said...

And Etsy would not exist without eBay. Rob admitted in one of his interviews that Etsy is basically a rip of eBay, just for handmade. It all goes around in circles. None of these sites invented eCommerce or retail marketplaces. Let's not pretend that Etsy is totally original. The largest site, yes. Original, no.

WindysDesigns said...

Heh, I wish I could remember the post and the specific terms that were used, but way back when, it might have been when Dawanda popped up, and everyone was hollering about them copying Etsy, someone said that Etsy was actually using some blog template setup and their design wasn't even original.

Maybe someone else with a little more tech saviness can recall and elaborate.

Hehe, I just realized one of the reasons they probably would like to see the oldies just die off and disappear....we can remember things they said in the beginning when they weren't so careful about the things they said.

There are so many people on Etsy now, it's a handful who remember .10 listings, a time when resellers hadn't discovered us yet, and commercial supplies were nearly all limited to crafting shops that were selling off their excess. There were maybe, a handfull of solely supply shops.

With as many people as work there, why do I still get a sense that they just can't get a handle on the site as a whole? It's like no one has taught them how to multi-task, that people are very task oriented and focused on one thing at a time.

Meh. I'm just rambling now,

Jerry said...

AFAOK said... "Yes, AF has admitted to being a clone-- have seen that statement elsewhere -- so who gives a shit?"

I do, because I think it's absurd to see people say Etsy copied Artfire. That's what I'm responding to.

Eve said... "...."

Etsy is also a ripoff of Flickr, don't forget that part just compare the listing pages to Flickr's pages, it's a pale imitation. For some reason the Flickr people just love Kalin though, and have invested him 1 or 2 million in Etsy.

Anyway, I never said Etsy was original, just that it's BS that they copy artfire.

Laura said...

Dude, Shade was kicked off for non delivery. NOT neg feedback. He posted on Etsy Call Out thread, as did a few of his unhappy buyers. I like this blog, but I can't believe u used him as an exmple. It was awful and illegal what he did.

BANNED said...

I agree, not the best example. But the point is: there are worse, WAY worse. And they have been pointed out plenty. Etsy should pay attention to feedback scores, not only the squeaky-wheeled customer. If they are going to kill off shops, it's important to have some sort of standard of due process.

Jerry said...

Etsy's been doing this acount crap forever... they run the whole site, people's BUSINESSES, like a two bit forum.

Some stupid bitch on a powertrip can just shut you down for no reason, and they don't email, they don't call, they don't send a letter... like they have no idea that you might rely on the site for an income and your professional face? OR they are nasty and stupid and genuinely don't care.

Look how they were doing this a couple years ago to magc jelly and artful market and a ton of other people. Didn't that consumerist article talk about it? And they never truly fixed the system.

Etsy has always had such poor management. It hasn't gotten any better now that they sold the company to investors or whatever. It seems like the people in charge have better things to do than care about etst, I mean wtf the CEO doesn't even bother to live in the same city as head quarters.

SUPER scared said...

I'm absolutely terrified now that my Etsy account is going to be deleted. One of my friends was just banned-for no reason, no cause, no email, no responses. And I have gone on her computer to access my accounts numerous times-so what? they'll scan for her IP address and see that my account was on it a few times and shut me down too?

I rely on my company to pay my college tuition!

Burning Moon said...

This literally just happened to me this week they deleted my store without any letter of why, I contacted them quite a few times before they message which I received a message that told me NOTHING. So I messaged back saying that if it did not get resolved that i would contact BBB (Better business bureau) & that I would legally look into this once I told them that they reopened my store. Please see my store here burningmoon.etsy.com

My store was gone for almost three days i had made a back up to check in the "bugs" forum yet no admin could offer an answer

Burning Moon said...

If anyone has this problem & etsy won't give your store back threaten to go to BBB (better business bureau) they will deal with it or threaten to take legal action it will get your account back.

UnHip said...

I have always made a practice not the threaten to do anything I am not completely ready to do.
It can backfire on you-- too many people threaten with legal action. Unless you have an uncle who is a lawyer, it has to be worth a couple of hundred dollars for that first consultation only........
So I do not threaten unless I am committed to following through.

Future Etsy Bitch said...

Disgusting. I am leaving Etsy as well. I too have been a victim of the ruthless, vindictive staff of Etsy. I am so tired of constantly paying and getting so little in return. Where do they find these useless people? If Etsy was my responsibility, many of these people would be out of a job and shopping at thrift shops. Oh wait they already are and it shows in most of their picks (sorry to be rude, there are many talented artists and sellers on Etsy but some of the staff's picks really leave me shaking my head). Once I leave I have so much to tell...

Help, I'm aware of Etsy said...

I agree 100% Future Etsy Bitch: most of the problems seem to be in the staff. Starting with the first people they hired, and the 'labs' crew who were given complete control of editorial content with apparently no oversight. Or, the person in charge of closing accounts, etc. who seemed to have no idea about investigation, responsibility, communication, accountability, people's businesses, reputation...

Etsy is an epic story of terrible management. As bad as these employees are, they couldn't be retained and do such harm if they had decent oversight. I've always gotten the feeling the management has it's head in the clouds (witness that speech by Maria a few months ago) and they have NO IDEA what is really going on in the day to day business.

Maybe said...

*Note I do appreciate you guys posting everyones and not censoring like in the forums*

What I would love to know is: do you still support Shadejewellery?

The Righteous One said...

Maybe, not sure who you're exactly addressing. We support Etsy sellers (and buyers) who are inappropriately and unfairly treated by Etsy, including those shut down for reasons while others who do the same "offense" remain open. We give this support based on information we have, which is often from the interested parties because Etsy refuses to discuss things that occur on Etsy. This may cause some disagreement, but we go with what we've got.

I know this turned into a discussion about a particular seller, but the point of this post was the unrelated Auxiliary bitch of another Etsy seller treated unfairly. It's a common occurrence on Etsy, and it's something that pisses us off royally. There is no excuse for cutting off a person's revenue stream because an admin had a pissy day or can't take the time to ask if a complaint has merit. The system they have in place for shop review is laughable, to say the least.

Pink Signs said...

WindyDesigns said:
Hehe, I just realized one of the reasons they probably would like to see the oldies just die off and disappear....we can remember things they said in the beginning when they weren't so careful about the things they said.

That is SO TRUE. If you look up old forums from 2 years ago you notice more freedom of speech. The sellers who posted alot back then don't come into the present day forums...I miss them. Now the forums wreak of lavender and mass produced roses!

Cmarie said...

This is a really old post , but I need to keep it alive. I was just perma banned on Etsy for speaking up on the forums, They closed my shop within 2 weeks. What I said was that instead of people telling on each other and causing drama on the forums, mind your business and help each other out. Boom banned, I cant even buy on Etsy. They track IP numbers. I am on Artfire now and have my own website www.c-mariejewelry.com Etsy are a bunch of Nazis. Last time I checked I lived in the USA as do they do..They are stomping on our freedom of speech and that is just wrong.