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Now that Etsy has announced another foregone conclusion - their “marketing themes plan” for the next several months, we’d like to say, “Thank you Etsy” for forgetting (again) about including your sellers in your new plan for the site and telling them what you want them to make that suits Etsy's tastes. At least we're not the only one who is seeing what is happening.
Like the famous and stagnant and repetitive Gift Guides, like the Etsy takeover (and extensive editing) of the Front Page Treasuries to promote yet again the same stores they promote in all other areas of the site - Etsy sellers are presented with a “creative plan” that was put together with very little (if any) seller input. Etsy said it’s so, and therefore Etsy sellers will have to adapt to something that sounds a little... airy fairy???
Oh, the trendy titles like “Earthtones” and “Etsy-Eco” are so... Etsy-ish!!!
We sellers are ooooohing and aaaaahhhhing at the lofty, completely confusing Etsy-isk rhetoric:
“Our plan is to communicate upcoming merchandising themes in advance each month. If you are designing new handmade items that fit well into our thematic calendar, we encourage you to make and list them as we introduce upcoming themes in advance. Tagging relevant items with appropriate themed tags is a great way to get on board with our merchandising efforts.”
“Thematic Calendar” – geeeeez loooeeeze!!
But wait! Etsy is the expert on what their shoppers like!
“We are following what shoppers are looking for (on Etsy and in the retail world at large) and we want to share those insights with you. Think of it as a promotional initiative that you can opt into if it's a good fit. If your items don't fit a theme, don't worry. These themes — loosely interpreted so we can highlight a diversity of items — will not take over 100% of the site, but will be sprinkled throughout to greet shoppers and give them touch stones.”
Touch Stones!!!! Poetic!
How about this: Etsy promotes what Etsy likes, including a small number of stores that produce those Etsy products for the Etsy price so that Etsy can promote them in their now “themed” (and oh so completely confusing, ridiculous titles that make no sense) sections SO THAT ETSY CAN CONTINUE TO PROMOTE THE STORES THAT ETSY PROMOTED ALL THROUGH 2008 AND INTO 2009. That’s “what shopper are looking for” on Etsy ‘cause that ALL ETSY PROMOTES!
The gig is up Etsy. You’re just calling it something else. It’s no different than what you’ve been doing for the last 14 months.
Only your language has gotten more obscure than ever. Etsy-speak = gobbledegook squared.
Good luck shoppers! If you can figure out what the hell Etsy is selling, good for you. Otherwise, there are plenty of sellers that used to be on Etsy but left for better sites. Where the shopping tools are clear, quick, easy and checkout is a breeze.
Wednesday, February 25, 2009
Not another "Handmade Weddings" and stream of consciousness from Etsy (again)!
Posted by The Funny One at 7:19 PM
Tagged: fail, favoritism, marketing, storque
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52 Comments:
You want a breath of fresh air????
Come over and look at the Markets set up by 1000 Markets MERCHANTS... (psssst...you know, the people that make the items and know how to sell it and market it)... check out the "Ever After Market" as an example of what a theme really is, http://www.1000markets.com/groups/everafter
HA! I laugh in the face of gobblydegook!
If I were a buyer only, I would pass by Etsy with one look at that trendoid crappola.
Who are they targetting? Target shoppers?
So Etsy owners/investors/mgmt found a used trendster wandering the interwebs and brought him home?
Oh dear, the Etsy Admin gang have donned their Bonnie and Clyde outfits (complete with anachronistic cowls) again and are brainstorming while relaxing in their failure hammocks.
i noticed a vintage(?) clothes shop which described all of its listing as eco-friendly
i guess this is how we all start to fit in with the etsy mass marketing
cue another round of mistagging and misinformation as sellers scramble to the top of the cupcake pile
I would like to remain optimistic about this. I doubt they can cram their fave sellers into a lot of themes. Think about it....spring and weddings and stuff are not usually associated with gloomy emo. One of the most very faves has not been on the FP in a week. I see this as a sign of progress. I remain cautiously optimistic.
This is one time that sellers need to speak out, and speak out often.
We all know that Etsy has been working for the last year to change the site to one that picks, promotes, and advertises only those products Etsy likes.
Etsy even took over 100% of the promotion tools on the site, including the FTP, which appears by their titles to be picked "randomly" but are heavily edited by Etsy so that only the items they like are included.
The "subtle Etsy message" for the last year has been carefully crafted: if you make what Etsy likes, you will get tons of FREE advertising for months at a time.
But, Etsy has now changed that to a WRITTEN policy that BLATANTLY ENCOURAGES SELLERS TO MAKE PRODUCTS THAT ETSY LIKES THAT WILL FIT ETSY'S NEW MERCHANDISING THEMES.
This is what they wrote:
"If you are designing new handmade items that fit well into our thematic calendar, we encourage you to make and list them as we introduce upcoming themes in advance."
This is no longer HANDMADE by the artisan/crafter/creator. This is Etsy ordering products THAT FIT THEIR DEFINITION of an approved Etsy product to be promoted by them because it fits their "style-formula." Implicit in this message is that YOU ONLY GET PROMOTED IF YOU MAKE WHAT ETSY WANTS.
This is not handmade. This is asking for products to be made to fit the Etsy Style.
This is not a small issue. Yes, Etsy will go ahead with it, and sellers will continue to produce exactly what Etsy wants-----but Etsy has now turned it into a written policy.
I'm asking, is this handmade? Or is this maybe handmade COMMISSIONED by Etsy to be promoted for free on their site?
Well, that just really takes the cake doesn't it? I cannot believe what I am reading.
I have a prediction:
Only the Etsy favorite sellers will have access to this "calendar" of which they speak. The rest of the sellers will just have to guess wtf is going on.
I have always had the impression that there are insiders who are privy to information that the rest of us simply don't know.
Now I'm even more sure of this.
I guarantee that Etsy's favorite sellers will be tagging their items with the appropriate tags and will be featured in all the right places as usual, while the rest of us are left in the dust.
ssdd
So basically they are saying: "Think INSIDE the box - OUR box."
Gobbledygook to the nth power. My eyes were spinning around trying to get a handle on all these odd terms.
I got sidetracked googling "Zona" to no avail after reading: "He is widely regarded as the founder of Zona, a trendsetting home and lifestyle specialty store, which pioneered the art of product storytelling in a storefront setting." If it's so great, why is it hidden somewhere in the webosphere?
I am really confused by this branding and theme stuff. I mean: do they not want people to sell their shit? What is the point of directing the site's style? This can't make them more money. Who buys all that cheap trendy shit, anyhow?
Do they not want the biz to make money, or what?
How does this whole thing make marketting sense?
ps: I think I just saw a kitty meltdown in that thread.
i usually agree with everything on this site, but this time i don't.
i think this is a good thing, an effort made by Etsy to finally establish some kind of direction and work for their money.
i read the article and all i got from it is that they will promote certain holidays and events and have themes for the front page.
i think all of us have something in our shops that will fall under love, blue, wedding, spring, earth tone, bright colors, whatever. and if we don't, then etsy is not the kind of venue where you can stand out with a product that is neither following certain guidelines NOR being totally unique. you have to get your market's attention one way or the other.
i know that etsy promotes certain sellers to death, but most of the FP tresuries are made by other etsy users. and for as many moustaches i see on the FP, i see fantastic, beautiful, handmade work that i covet.
in my personal experience, if you have something of interest at the moment, you will eventually be noticed and included in a gift guide or treasury. i am on the FP once in a while and i can say that i'm not an etsy "favorite", i've complained about and to them several times and i always write on this site with my shop's real name. and my stuff is not inexpensive or "emo."
also, as much as i support the idea that all of us who pay the same fees to etsy should be promoted equally, i also want to be part of a site that is "quality-controlled" somehow and that shows some discrimination about how they present themselves.
truth is (I think) that the FPs are usually gorgeous and i love that. i think it helps MY business. if you browse the shops on the site, a huge percentage are just not good or have poor pictures and presentations. i know that when i first started, i had really bad pictures and don't think should have been on the FP.
that's not to say that there aren't so many great shops that don't get as much forward placement as others. that should change, i agree.
but the reality is that not every shop is appropriate for the FP or the gift guide all the time. i'm willing to pay some fees and learn from others who seem to have great pictures, good products and good success. and if i don't get what i think i should for my buck, *I* am the one who has to make changes and move on from etsy.
Etsy is a flawed venue with idiotic admins. they also get a LOT of traffic into our shops. it is what it is. we all have to open shops on 1000 markets and silkfair and dawanda and so on and make those sites big and great just like we did for etsy.
Soooo....let me make sure I got this right...Etsy's going to have themes. They're going to announce these themes. They are encouraging sellers to cater to these themes.
And in the end, I guess the people who do not go with the theme can count on more exclusion since they don't conform to the theme.
Wait...I said CONFORM didn't I?
Conformity...that's the perfect word to describe what's happening (been happening) there. It's like some weird arty borg site...conform and assimilate. LOL
In what screwed up world does an artisan venue sanction conformity?
Ah well, I'll keep doing my own thing, even if it means I never ever make the front page or gift guides. *shrug*
my google analytics stats don't reflect etsy bringing lots of traffic to my shop.
Now that might be different if I were in the gift guides, the ""get the style showcases, or the front page treasuries.
I don't get why more people aren't complaining about having to compete with Etsy the venue when they purchase a showcase. You buy a showcase, and you have to compete with a larger Etsy ad and gift guide on the front page. It's just a huge conflict of interest.
Now, you are asked to create more items for them to feature to compete against.
but the reality is that not every shop is appropriate for the FP or the gift guide all the time. i'm willing to pay some fees and learn from others who seem to have great pictures, good products and good success.
____________
I will absolutely agree that not every shop is appropriate for the FP, but there are many more shops good enough for the FP than make it on a daily basis. There is no reason for certain shops to be on the FP multiple times a day, every day. No reason at all. Etsy cannot possibly be so thin on talent that they need to keep throwing the same people up there.
I agree wholeheartedly. I think the magic of etsy is the diversity. I don't want things that fit into a design "box".
I want to create items I love not something that will "sell" at a certain time.
ZONA was an 80s thing, never became a huge chain, and was sold out to another company over 10 years ago. The themes (or whatever) this guy is pushing at Etsy are pretty much what he has been pushing in his interweb press releases for a while. It's not specifically for Etsy. Why are Etsy shops being asked to place some of their economic eggs in this guy's trendoid basket?
It's a shame their marketing plans don't include attracting any new buyers. That's the one thing that would help the site the most.
Hmmm...60+ paid staff and a paid consultant came up with that?
I especially noted (paraphrasing): "we watch trends here and in the retail world." Sounds like an excuse to leaf through magazines and take off to go shopping when they should be working.
More marching in step to etsy's tune. More blah blah blah with very little substance. Holidays, whoopee.
There were several tweets this afternoon by Etsy promoting "celeb" shops, specifically Rosie O'Donnell's. Like she needs it.
I'm just a face in the crowd.
Can anyone make sense of marymary's "clarification" in that linked thread? She wrote:
It is not our intention to ask that sellers make items that fit in with announced themes; it is our intention to let sellers know that already make these types of items or are interested in doing so that we will be highlighting that theme so they have time to stock up in advance. It also doesn't mean if a seller doesn't make those types of items and doesn't want to that they will be left out of the chance to be highlighted during that time frame.
As I read this, either
(a) the themes are meaningless because all sellers have a "chance to be highlighted" (whatever that means) regardless of whether they match the theme, or
(b) the themes will be the main approach and sellers who don't or don't want to match them can still change their minds, or
(c) the themes will be the main approach and this vague promise of a "chance to be highlighted" is meant to keep non-compliant sellers from freaking out.
It's really unclear what a "chance to be highlighted" entails, if one isn't following a theme.
It's hard to escape the suspicion that this is just a vague promise that the themes won't be a disaster for sellers not involved in them.
I, for one, am not reassured.
The new marketing plan is the new bingo card. Please make your treasuries accordingly.
They are telling us in advance this is what they plan to promote, so if you want a piece of the pie then you better conform, if you don't fit in, then fuck you.
If you are reading the Forums, it's kind of interesting that there is backpedaling on the statements Etsy just made about making products to fit this new theme calendar.
Another glaring example that Etsy keeps putting its foot in its mouth.
Etsy just stated, in print, that sellers who make products that fit Etsy's themes (in advance! with tags!) will get picked for promotions---------what? Sellers aren't going to figure out that Etsy will do a search on those tags and spend 3 minutes picking those items for their promotions?
Isn't that exactly what Etsy does now?
Puleeese, your sellers are not as stupid as you think they are.
Well apparently Lou sold ZONA over 10 years ago and like Carol B. said, you can't find any info about it. In June 2007 Mr. Sagar became the Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Auction Floor, Inc., a provider of web based technology to the auction industry. Interesting.....
More info here at Forbes.com:
http://people.forbes.com/profile/louis-sagar/79498
First of all, 1000Markets is a good concept, but it need work. As someone who makes jewelry, it's starting to look junky, with $8 bead earrings and tile pendants.
DreamWoven, are you here to attract buyers?
Etsy's new plan does not surprise me at all. Don't think that they aren't planning these themes to fit the sellers THEY ALREADY FAVOR.
The ACC show is going on this weekend with not much of a peep going out to the people of etsy there. Oh yea, Danielle did say she would be there in an e-mail about selling your destash today.
It's just another example of their brilliant art of lip service. The week of featuring crafts that were ACC quality is long forgotten.
More and more, Etsy is feeling like a cheap Crate and Barrel, with their main focus on "Home decor".
"The retail world at large"? Does that mean they'll have a look outside Brooklyn to see what people are buying? Wow..
Do not follow where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
(unless you're Etsy and it's brainwashed sellers)
Lately the FP has been so incredibly boring. I used to actually see things I would click on. Oh well, at least I don't care anymore if I'm on it or not.
Hilarious, Lips Moving......and throw in "bore your visitors to death."
Ya gotta love a group of 60 paid people who are overlording a site based on individual stores to come up with marketing ideas that push their personal tastes into a tiny little box. (Or, How To Run Yourself Out of Business in 5 Easy Steps.)
Talk about throwing a monkey wrench into the works. Could Etsy have thought of anything even MORE inappropriate to the entire underlying concept???
Mary can backpedal all she wants, but if Etsy didn't want to tell sellers in black and white to start making more Etsy-Like products, then somebody at Etsy should have picked up a red pen and done a little editing.
so, from a little research, it appears this dude Lou has been around the block a few times (strolling and admiring thematic window displays)
Now, I'm not one for age discrimination, but how does a *vintage dude from the 80's, who was a successful(?) adult before most of the staff was even born, get hired on as a consultant?
And - no mention of supplies or vintage, and how these two parts of the Etsy pie will be featured.
(You can see my other posts in the thread on marketing. No need to re-rant here)
Etsy is a "Little-Box" venue. Let's all march to the same drummer.
RE Sagar's tenure at Auction Floor Inc:
http://www.pr9.net/business/ecommerce/8901september.html
where he is being asked to resign.
Apparently he failed to step down voluntarily, and was 'removed'. (This is a copy/paste of a cached file because the original article has been scrubbed from Google since I accessed it yesterday):
"Auction Floor Announces New Management
Published September 17th, 2008
Auction Floor, Inc. , a leading web-based technology provider to the auction industry, has elected new officers. The Board of Directors has elected the following officers:
Dr. Reuben Setliff - Chairman Robert Wilson - Co-Chairman and Vice-President Jordan Kacic - President and Treasurer Ed Steinback - Secretary
Lou Sagar, former CEO and President, was removed from those positions effective September 12, 2008.
The Company’s core technology platform, AuctionManager(TM), a proprietary auction management software solution, enables auction houses, consignors, and sellers to centralize their management for auction events from a single platform.
Web site: http://www.auctionfloor.com/"
Anyway, you MUST read the letter from shareholders at the first link above. It seems like Lou's management style fits in with Etsy perfectly.
From that letter:
Mr. Sagar's past career as a cash-business, knick-knack retailer obviously taught him nothing about corporate finance.
OUCH.
foxaz said...
And - no mention of supplies or vintage, and how these two parts of the Etsy pie will be featured.
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I think it could actually work out well for vintage sellers, since many vintage items are in the kitchen/tabletop/ home decor category. They would fit with the whole dinner party/ redecorate/ stay at home and save money/ cocooning theme.
They are already featured pretty well in Storque articles like Anda's "throw a small dinner party" article that was published this week.
Supplies is another story but I think they sell pretty well without promotion, since Etsy keeps attracting more sellers (crafters) to the site instead of buyers. More crafters = more consumers of craft supplies.
I too am so bored with the front page and gift guides. To my knowlegde I was in the gg once but only for a very short time and the whole category I was in is now gone. Meanwhile the same old same old shops make it multiple times sometimes even on the same page in the gg. Seriously.
What gets me is I make wonderful treasuries. I have had many on the front page. I have a formula...I generally try to include a variety of items, I rotate who I feature (many many unknowns)and I pick good themes or interesting color combos. Since the take over of the front pg by admin I have not had a list on the fp nor have I been featured on fp (which in the past I made it here and there in others treasuries).
Perhaps I am sour b/c of this harsh reality but since they began doing this about 2 months ago, pretty much my only sales (and there have been very few) were all from return past customers. My google analytics has just been dropping and dropping. I am not getting any views or sales. It is very very frustrating when I renew 3 or 4 times throughout the day I have a very full shop and unique product with good photos.
I just can't believe that they keep featuring the same "found searching...spring/moss/ruffle" over and over and over again and the same shops are making it to that 15 min. spot on the fp.
With the economy it was slow enough and now I seem to be unfindable which is making my business barely going.
I want to jump, punch, kick, fight but am scared to speak up more then the occasional snarky treasury title. Wishing this was all a little nightmare and I have woken up to the way it used to be.
Damnit.
I realize more buyers wouldn't be an end-all solution, but it would be great if they advertised somewhere.
I realize they think they're the next craigslist or google, but etsy is a niche interest site. It's a shame nobody running the site understands that.
but the reality is that not every shop is appropriate for the FP or the gift guide all the time.
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Quite true. In fact, some of the clunkers featured on the FP and GG aren't FP/GG-worthy either, IMO.
ALSO...(hits replay on the CD player)...if they want an always hip and trendy front page or gift guide, then they need to jury the site to ensure no Southern Belle toilet paper roll covers, instead of letting anyone in, but only promoting a chosen few.
I´m sick and tired of Etsy, so sick and tired that I could scream right now.
The FP thing is a joke (not because of the sellers...).
The content team...well I don´t know where to start, there are so many things wrong with that "team".
Sometimes (most like everytime) Etsy seems to be managed by teens instead of adults.
WTF? If You're turning out a bunch of trendoid crap that fits Etsy's required and dictated style, then you're not an artist, you're simply a manufacturer exactly like Walmart and every other mall store in the world. What they are really saying with this "theme" crap is..."we are the marketing geniuses, and we'll tell you what sells, if you want something unique or different, go somewhere else, and take your money with you"
F.O. Etsy!
WJW... this quote from wartime's link:
"Mr. Sagar's negligence and inexperience in administering the Company's affairs has contributed significantly to the decline in the Company's stock price (a decline in excess of 85% as of this date) since he assumed his position as Chief Executive.
Stock performance is a reflection of Mr. Sagar's performance, it is that simple. Mr. Sagar's past career as a cash-business, knick-knack retailer obviously taught him nothing about corporate finance."
SO, Etsy told everyone they are strictly a venue to host sites for artisans, artists & crafters who do their own unique things, but in reality they are actively positioning themselves as a mass market merchandiser of trendy crafty knick-knacks.
And they're relying on a has-been cheese factory swindler to create their own Etsy brand, which substantially conflicts with the brands/images of thousands of sellers.
Fine artisans and artists should RUN NOW, before your reputation becomes linked to this unfortunate genre.
as someone who sells quite a bit on 1000 markets and buys there too, shopping is still inherently clunky on that site. complain all you want, i have gripes too, but nothing has matched the views, visibility and relative ease of use on etsy.
etsy is now saying what they should have said last year and it would have caused far less hurt feelings.
they are in business, they want to make money and they are going to feature items from sellers that make them money . you can say they feature a certain seller repeatedly and that makes the seller make money or you can say the seller's items draw more people in. its a circular question that may never be answered. either way if your items arent appealing to the masses, make something new.
the surest definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. honestly i changed my photos and the difference in business has been amazing.
and if gripe gripe gripe doesnt work, then maybe other changes should be considered...
Who has the guts to post the link to that quote about the knicknack dealer in the current forum thread?
(I looked at those links and couldn't see where that quote was....)
to SoVeryFrustrated,
I can't say that I feel your pain, since I've never been a frequent front pager, or a chosen seller, but -
You've somehow fallen from grace, and it hurts. Hurts your sales, hurts your feelings, hurts your google analytics.
Now you know how the rest of us feel, when we get no views or sales. As much as frequent flyers say it doesn't affect their sales to be featured, it does, doesn't it?
I'm very sorry that happened to you. And I'm sorry for your loss.
"Appealing to the masses" is for dept stores, not what is supposed to be a place to find the unique.
I would caution anyone from running to the forums with the information and links posted regarding Mr. Sagar here in EB because from my own research, he is still CEO and board member of the company as of 2/9/09.
The courts overturned the shareholder's meeting to force Sagar out of his position on September 10, 2008.
You really ought to make sure you have your facts straight when you start posting links to things and claiming them as truth.
You can all do your own homework and find the same information I did, I suggest you do it and stop spreading lies and rumors and trying to defame anyone.
Attention to the reputation of the consultant is wasted energy, since the real issue is that Etsy is imposing a style on the site, blatantly encouraging sellers to make products to FIT their chosen styles, and offering to promote said products. We all know they already do that, but now it's in black and white.
Promotions, fixation on only a few stores, complete fixation on manufactured trends, and an overall tone of sarcasm and "we're too cool for you" on the site just bangs out the same rhythm.
Etsy is the business (with a domineering personality), NOT the sellers who sell there. If you want to make what Etsy wants to sell, you may sell, and sell well.
THAT, however, is not handmade. That's custom orders customized to fit the manufactured tastes of Etsy, not the person creating the product.
If Etsy wants to promote only Etsy-like products, let them order and pay for them up front.
They've got a store on Gold Street; let 'em sell their customized Etsy-brand products after they pay for them.
WindysDesigns said...
I would caution anyone from running to the forums with the information and links posted regarding Mr. Sagar here in EB because from my own research, he is still CEO and board member of the company as of 2/9/09.
The courts overturned the shareholder's meeting to force Sagar out of his position on September 10, 2008.
You really ought to make sure you have your facts straight when you start posting links to things and claiming them as truth.
-----------------------------
What is untrue about the fact that the shareholders tried to remove him?
But agreed -- this dude's other business antics aren't relevant to the Etsy forums. I mean, Etsy community members (buyers and sellers) are not stockholders in Etsy. Even if his advice pushes the last vestige of the old indie Etsy over the cliff in favor of upscale trendoid bric-a-brac, we can't vote him away or anything like that.
Also, what The Funny One said! I saw the FP selection yesterday found using the search 'bird'. As if anyone would think that 'bird' items are undiscovered treasures on Etsy, or are under-represented on the FP. They are banging the point home with a sledgehammer now: we don't need no stinking imagination, and -- if you know what's good for your business -- neither do you.
SoVeryFrustrated's post illustrates very clearly what I've been saying all along...if your venue neither supports nor promotes you, you're going to have a tough time selling anything.
Being on the front page and GG DOES make a difference.
*giggling at the FP selection was found using "bird". Really etsy? Bird? As if that's not a requirement to be on the FP anyway? Bird? Why do they think everyone is a fucking twee bird fan?
Argh. If I don't giggle I'll throw my computer out the window. Giggling is better for everyone.
I think it is hysterical that Etsy thinks that they are trendy. I follow fashion mags and home decor mags and I think Etsy is so off the mark it isn't funny. For example, the jewelry they feature and the photos - do not reflect current trends,. Etsy admin really has no sense of style as far as I'm concerned. Don't get me wrong - there are some amazing artists featured. But it's not necessary to feature the same artists every day.
This "consultant" they hired is not impressive at all. Give me a break. I would not recommend defaming him, but IMHO based on what I've read, I don't see how he'll add much value.
Etsy will continue to focus only on their imagined trends with their favorite sellers. Those sellers who are featured multiple times over and over again will be the only ones who reap the benefits of this so-called merchandising strategy.
I'm working on different venues to showcase my work. Eventually, I will probably stop selling on Etsy. I do well there, but I'm becoming less and less impressed.
I dare wonder if I change my location, and put Brooklyn, change my jewelry to fit trendy emo hipster, will I get featured? Will I finally crack 20 sales after being with etsy since they opened their internet doors?
If I conform to their "hidden" standards I suppose I'll finally make something of myself.
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