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We at EtsyBitch just got a tip about a brand new blog that calls out resellers on Etsy, Flaggy. Now, we've all seen some good, honest sellers (like Thaidreams) get hounded wrongfully for being resellers, so I'm cautious about this one, but I think, if used for obvious or proven cases, that it could be focus a useful spotlight on some of the worst offenders on Etsy (and they are legion). Some resellers have been protected to a ridiculous extent by Admin, and I'd, personally, love to see a few of those guys nailed.
I hope that Flaggy (I picture Flaggy as looking like a disgusted Swimmy, for some reason) adds a way to submit tips and really makes sure that it only calls out obvious cases -- and I predict that if it does, it's going to be a very busy site.
Wednesday, June 18, 2008
Sick of resellers on Etsy? Come flag with Flaggy
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42 Comments:
Eh. Too close to torches and pitchforks for me. I considered this very idea - even registered a domain - and was convinced by friends that it was worrying too much about others' business. And since Etsy doesn't give a crap about resellers anyway, it would just be an energy sink, too.
But I hope some good comes of it.
Thank you very much for the link!
Those who want to submit, feel free to contact me.
All we need now is a blog of bad tags and category placement and the areas that Etsy wants to ignore most should be all be highlighted for everyone to review.
Torches and pitchforks... yeah. I worry that the next blog might be "Etsy Sellers Making Crap Too Ugly to Try and Sell".
Or, "We Think These People are Copying Others Work"
How about a "Bad Buyers Who Never Pay" blog with names and addresses?
Ben, there already is that last one (see the Bad Etsy Deals link to the left. It's mostly about sellers but also some buyers).
Like Disgruntled said, there's a chance for evil...but also a chance for good.
We hope the right path is chosen.
If they can provide actual proof of reselling, I have no problem with the site but if not, I think they should refrain until they can provide links to the original sources.
I see proof for the earrings (and damn, don't those look like they hurt?) and the pants and yes the others look suspicious (there's no way those bags are hand sewn) but is that enough? Should that be enough?
The concept, well, who is to say how others should be spending their time, especially since Etsy has asked us to flag and demonstrated that they lack the balls to enforce their policies without outside help?
Rock, hard place, you decide.
The reseller issue -- at least in the cases of shops from developing nations -- may partly be a cultural misunderstanding. And the cause may lie in part with Etsy allowing vintage and supplies on the site.
'vintage' and 'handmade' are really hot buzzwords right now in marketing. A huge percentage of new merchandise described by either (or both) of these words is mass produced in Asia. Sellers looking to expand their online reach in the USA may misunderstand what Etsy is about. Heh, how many American sellers ask what 'vintage' is, or for explanations of what can be sold under the TOU on the forums repeatedly? Etsy needs some multi-lingual staff members to work with sellers from Asia so that shops that belong on Etsy from this part of the world can be welcomed into the community without hassles or calling-out. And shops that are plainly resellers can be closed. Nations that are newly industrialized wouldn't have our concept of vintage (factory made stuff that is old and collectible), and handmade there is just a common method of production of goods.
I think that's a bit much... I'm worried that maybe people who are within the rules may eventually be accused of reselling or something. Some people on Etsy are so damn good that you think they're buying mass produced and reselling.
But anyway, if evidence is provided, so be it. Everyone needs to follow the rules.
I think the fact that the people who hounded TD off of Etsy were 259.5% convinced that they were correct in their reselling accusations gives a pretty good idea that this probably isn't a good idea, even if what looks like Etsy's fairly lapse response to certain resellers leaves all of us very frustrated.
People can convince themselves that they are absolutely right based on what to others looks like extremely flimsy evidence or is at least contrary to more compelling evidence.
It's going to often be a very hard call to make reliably without being in a position to thoroughly investigate something.
I used to convo the people myself and tell them that I thought it sucked that they were polluting our hand made site with their mass produced junk...Once this woman wrote back, so offended. She actually did make what I had accused her of not making.
did I ever feel like a douchebag.
oopsie dasiy.
Yeah, the torches and pitchforks thing occurred to me to, elizabeth. The possibility of their being wrong (and the fallout from it) could be dreadful. Flaggy could get really ugly, really fast: unless they can offer clear evidence of reselling, I 'd suggest they let discretion be the better part of valor and not call out cases that are not totally clear.
Yeah needs to be blatantly obvious that it's not handmade. I have a huge problem myself with cafepress printed items sold on esty, as there is nothing handmade with cafepress, and I have a store I make about $150 a month on there. Cafepress is three factories in the US alone.
Someone printing up their design on a screenpress themselves, fine. But when I see the cafepress graphics *and they areeasy to spot when you know what the look like* I just roll my eyes.
I know I'm kinda alone on that. And etsy allows it, but shouldn't.
(cafepress has an amazing CS department, btw... I'll give them that)
Ehhh - that's scary to me. I see where there is a link to one of the mass producers... but where are the rest? A buyer saying "the tag said made in India" doesn't prove anything to me. At least show me a picture of the tag attached to the bag. Even if they are mass produced, you're innocent until proven guilty and proof needs to be concrete.
The other downside of flaggy is that links are being provided back to shops which may well be dodgy. Their Google ranking increases as a result of this, making them easier to find. Maybe a better idea would be unlinked text of the URL that people can copy and paste? It's a shame to see true resellers getting a benefit from being called on it!
"Eh. Too close to torches and pitchforks for me."
yeah, me too. In theory it's good, to prevent what happened with everyone's favorite bead reseller that recently got shut down thanks to a lot of community action but......
too much potential for abuse.
Lot of good ideas for improvements, thank you.
The darkside: I will post only blatant resellers with proofs.
I'd prefer to see the proof of reselling (actual pictures from actual commercial wholesale websites) and no link to the actual etsy shop at all but an inclusion of the pic of the etsy shop but not the name.
First of, proof is in the pudding, so where's the pudding?
Next, the potential for abuse on that level is greater than the potential for ethical commentary.When the risk is greater, it's time to say nay.
Last, it doesnt solve the problem of Etsy needing to clearly define a collective and then enforce the rules. How do you get proof of such without actually being there at the location of the reseller?A product isnt proof or the location of the seller. And there are quite a few of these resellers of wholesalers, employers and designers masquerading items as handmade by them or their business as sole proprieters when that is case.
Heck, we have prints masquerading as originals so therin lies the problem...
I would like to see the Etsy listing right next to the commercial product from the manufacturers catalog or website. That would be golden.
Calling out shops like that is a very dangerous, slippery slope. I see Flaggy is posting here as well. What about providing an opportunity for the accused seller to defend themselves as well?
Just my 2 cents.
As for Flaggy, I agree with most here. With that one I see too much opportunity for it to be used wrong.
Too many innocent sellers could get hurt in the proces.
Well, one of Flaggy's clothing stores is featured today in Anda's Etsy Finds emails....
Andy Mathis said...
love the bitches _________________________
huh said...
The way Andy says that is making me hot for some reason.
________________________
Tell me about it. *fans herself*
Oh, and I agree there's too much potential for abuse with Flaggy.
Blogger MajorFuckingEtsyBurnout said...
Well, one of Flaggy's clothing stores is featured today in Anda's Etsy Finds emails....
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noticed this too. this leads me to believe that either they are allowed OR that etsy doesn't really give a crap or pay attention to what they advertise!
one of the pics is gone baby gone from earlier today and
the current one up shows links that do not go to proof
what's going on with flaggy?
You do nothing, people are not happy. You do something people are not happy.
I will refrain from posting here but will continue my work at Flaggy.
I removed idea2lifestyle from the list because I couldn't find enough evidences. For now. I also have a life, in case you wonder! :)
Anyway, thank you all for the exposure and the help!
I am so siked to know about the bitches and flaggy now. After the Renegade, and coming back to see the mass amount of chaos on the forums, sellers loosing it left and right, I have a new outlet to help save etsy from ruining the good name of craft.
Hey Flag - it isn't that people were unhappy, I think they just thought it needed proof - for fairness. I think showing proof is great and your website is great, as long as there is proof for protection purposes. I can think of a site that I've been looking for proof on for a while. I see catalog names and numbers in the pictures, but can't find the exact items to use in flagging. It's frustrating.
Another one by "osogirly" is on Etsy's front page. Probably the most popular brand in S. Korea and Etsy just lets it pop right up on the front - twice today!
rivkasmom, no personal vendettas against sellers (new or old) will be played out here.
What? No vendetta here. Just the facts. Google, it's your friend.
MajorFuckingEtsyBurnout said...
Well, one of Flaggy's clothing stores is featured today in Anda's Etsy Finds emails....
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Tim Easterday said...
Another one by "osogirly" is on Etsy's front page. Probably the most popular brand in S. Korea and Etsy just lets it pop right up on the front - twice today!
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nice. i'm sure it has nothing to do with them being featured on flaggy *rolls eyes*. what a slap in the face.
i remember back in the day an admin joked about how she loved shopping in all the stores she found by people flagging them.
MajorFuckingEtsyBurnout said...
Well, one of Flaggy's clothing stores is featured today in Anda's Etsy Finds emails....
-------------------
Tim Easterday said...
Another one by "osogirly" is on Etsy's front page. Probably the most popular brand in S. Korea and Etsy just lets it pop right up on the front - twice today!
-------------
nice. i'm sure it has nothing to do with them being featured on flaggy *rolls eyes*. what a slap in the face.
i remember back in the day an admin joked about how she loved shopping in all the stores she found by people flagging them.
Any reference to Thaidreams as honest and proven NOT to be a "reseller" just sounds like a joke, honestly. A bitch blog that takes side with a reseller is a joke, sorry guys, but now I question the content of this blog. Rivkasmom was one of her victims, and many more, I guess you don't have all the insider knowledge after all.
Anyway, choose not to post this, it really doesn't matter.
Just a different opinion.
that flaggy site goes a little too far. if there is a link to the wholesale picture then okay but "speculation" is just harsh.
I'm glad to find out about flaggy. I just submitted a "tip".
Etsy hasn't removed the items after repeated flagging.
The items I submitted to flaggy don't even look handmade, they're manufactured. I mean, come on, a metal picture frame by a big name designer and a box (new in box) of greeting cards by another well know designer? Listed using handmade tags. They're not vintage and they're not supplies. This seller is just buying crap and reselling on Etsy. Plain and simple.
the admin joke was about liking offcolor items, as she later clarified, not factory-made or resell items. i didn't know that the osogirly was such a huge brand in korea.
i've yet to see solid evidence that thaidreams was a reseller. their story that the way in which the pants are made is traditional seems just as plausible to me.
as for flaggy, well.. i've been keeping my eye on it. some of the posts are "successful" imo, in that it's clear that the artist is not making the item his/herself. but most are too speculative for my tasty. professional pictures and other websites selling the same item just aren't enough, especially if the items aren't even identical =/
I say flaggy is a wonderful thing! Etsy admins don't do a damn thing when you continue to flag someone over, and over, and over again. Then, the admins actually BUY from the resellers (aka aidacoronado)! Shouldn't Etsy admins be able to recognize blatantly obvious non-handmade items??!!
And Flaggy can add idea2lifestyle back to the list because that stuff is "handmade" in sweatshops.
I am glad you removed me as reseller, lol. I am idea2lifestyle, happened to see this fun blog. We make clothes by ourselves, if we could buy unique qirky clothes at affordable clothes in China commercial market, we might not have designed and made on our own. That's how we started our shop. We take custom orders, every bitch lover is welcomed:=)
Flaggy is back
Idea2lifestyle: reseller(s)
http://flaggyetsy.blogspot.com/
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