Quotables: Vintage Rokali

Ahhh yes, the early Etsy days:

"There is no “Etsy” in the monolithic sense of a single identity or being. Etsy is the several dozen employees of Etsy, Inc. and even more, the several hundred thousand members of the community. As I see it, large corporations try to sanitize all their outgoing messages for the sake of keeping face. It is very easy to identify this kind of behavior. Whenever you read something and it sounds like a series of pre-made phrases strung together, instead of a human being speaking, this is sanitized communication. To me, this stuff sounds inhuman.I want Etsy to stay human. This means allowing each person’s voice to be heard, even if it’s squeaky or loud or soft.* [Editor's note: AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!] I will not put a glossy layer of PR over what we do. If we trip, let us learn from it instead of trying to hide it; when we leap, let’s show others how to leap."

Dear Rokali, you've tripped so many times do you even know what walking is these days?


*Emphasis mine.

Shared thoughts

Missing quotables? Well, we ran across a new blog that you are going to love! or hate...depends on what you focus on.

Quotes from Etsy's Pissed Off Sellers

Since the forums were transitioned, the venom and loathing is competing with the bullshit for depth.

You'll notice a lack of attribution - at first that disturbed me, after all you should give someone credit where credit's due...but they offer an explanation - so you decide if you're ok with it or not

Quotables: The tipping point

Ahh, you smell that? That's dissatisfaction, and the Etsy forums are full of it regarding the new Sales Tax feature being rolled out. In fact, some just can't take the nonsense anymore:

First, I would like to say that I never rant in the forums. This issue, coupled with several other changes recently implemented at Etsy, have brought me to a tipping point.

Quoting: ericds says:

"The new Checkout, which will require payment before an item is marked as sold, is one of the most requested features and we think it will dramatically improve the experience for buyers and sellers.

We didn't want to delay the release of the new Checkout until we had released the perfect sales tax tool, which could take a long time.

We decided to start simple and will improve the sales tax feature over time."

Etsy is based in NY State and they are unable to appreciate the somewhat ridiculous tax rate situation sellers have here?! I truly do not understand this at all.

Are you serious when you say "until we had released the perfect sales tax tool, which could take a long time."?!?! Do you have any idea how much trouble this IMperfect sales tax tool is going to cause? It is absolutely 100% useless to me as a seller in NY State. And you are acting like this is news?!

In order for me to collect the correct amount of sales tax I have to plug a buyer's address into the state sales tax online calculator. It is literally done by address - not county or zip code - in some places. Right now I have to refund the whole purchase thru PayPal, re-invoice the buyer with the tax added, and ask them to pay again. It
sucks. There is no way around it until someone writes the magical code for figuring out how to charge NYS taxes by address. Oh, wait... almost every other online retailer does!! My bad!!

All I keep hearing is "the new checkout will require payment before an item is marked as sold". Blah blah blah. Do not placate me with something that should have been done ages ago in order for me to swallow the bitter pill of indescribably poor sales tax collection implementation.

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Update: Checkout rollout has been pulled back to address the sales tax issues - bitching does help!

Facebook connect - now spam your family!

We're sure by now you have all (or at least most of you) heard about or seen the Facebook connect for your Etsy shop. Etsy has been working diligently since May to turn out this wonderful promotional tool for its sellers.

aaaahahahahah sorry, I couldn't keep that up.

The truth is, from what we can gather in statements posted on and off Etsy is that Facebook developed the app and eBay added it so Etsy did too (even though they try to take credit for it - you slimy bastards). But it doesn't seem to work on Etsy and it can only add links to your personal profile, not your fan page (this is a Facebook thing). It might work in IE, but other browser users are reporting errors and/or sluggishness.

Etsy, for all things spam! If they can integrate the code properly, that is.

If you click on the icon on the top menu of your screen after logging in, you can choose to not have it show again if you'd rather forget it exists.


goatmountainarts said:

*sob* This is like getting underwear for Christmas. *runs off waving arms in the air and crying*

uknowuneedanother said:

Etsy, y'all seriously need to regroup, put down the crack pipe, and focus on some reality.

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BRAVO!!!!!

It's not often we give out TWO Awards of Valor in such a short period of time, but... ahhhh.... dissatisfaction and rage is in the air and that makes for good blogging! Another HeyMichelle drive by locking.

PaintedBull says:
I do not care if i get muted or forever kicked out but closing that thread was fuckin bullshit!!!!!

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5987079

there was no calling out and there was a lot of good discussion, you are very blatant in your attitude towards weavers on this site. What the hell is wrong with you!!!!

I am so pissed off about this, and I know I am very aggressive in this post but damn I am mad.

This is the most disgusting thing. You are neglecting a huge amount of talent.

So please delete my accounts mute me forever. I just can not believe the treatment you give your sellers.

So from the bottom of my heart...

go fuck yourself, Etsy!

JJ Walts and PaintedBull
That is my whole and true name.

PaintedBull, we'd stalk you, steal the gum you left on a receipt, clone your DNA and make a unholy army of you, give all yourselves a molotov cocktail kit and a first class all expenses paid ticket to Brooklyn.

But that's like really expensive we're guessing and since the economy sucks and sales on Etsy are down per capita - we'll just have to give you this:

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We suggest you set it now while you still can change your avatar.

"Dear Etsy" letter for the ages

With no further ado, this might be the Best. Letter. Evar. This one needs to be sold for framing!

I'm sure this might come as a bit of a shock considering our history together, but I think it's for the best.

Sure, we seemed like one of those couples who would "make it." You're a handmade venue with a ton of traffic. I was a top seller with an impressive amount of sales. But I'm a commercial supplier, and frankly, our relationship is more than a bit one-sided and I just can't take it anymore.

Sure, you love having girls like me around when you want to look studly with those sales numbers. They get a both of us a lot of attention. You're a great-looking site on the surface, and I have tons of products. We make an attractive pair. And we both know that I'm not even close to the best looking girl out there- there are real knockouts like BlackSheepBeads and ArtfulMarket. But this isn't about them, it's about me and you.

When we're at home, it's like my needs never even matter. You KNOW that it takes a lot of effort for me to look this good. Do you think I wake up in the morning and roll out of bed with 50 sales a day? Someone's making sure those items get listed on a timely schedule and it sure as hell isn't YOU! You don't lift a finger! You just sit around and act like it's your God-given right to steal all the credit when I'm the one doing all the work. But when people complain that I get too much attention, you never stick up for me! You just let me hang out to dry.

And speaking of behind closed doors, what the hell is it with the lack of stats and other basic administrative functions? That may have been okay in the 90s, but it's a new decade and girls these days expect you to put in time DOWN THERE, especially if YOU expect US to do it. Don't tell me it's too hard because everyone is different. What do you think I am, an idiot?! This isn't my first time to the rodeo. I've been with other sites! I know what's out there!

And don't tell me that you're doing the best you can, because we both know you're not. Who the HELL told you that being able to submit a lousy TEN feedbacks at once actually counted as "batch" ANYTHING? Or that taking out one picture made an invoice "printer friendly"?? Just because all of the things I have to change appear on one page doesn't make it any easier if I still have to click on every single item!

Not to mention all the glitches I have to deal with, like lost e-mail notifications and payment checkboxes not automatically updating. I've bitched about that one for months! Apparently you've gotten so comfortable in our relationship that you think it's a-okay to just let yourself go!

Face it: In the "private time" category, YOU TOTALLY SUCK! And I'm telling all my girlfriends!!

And you know what else I NEVER liked? The way you dis me to your friends like I'm not good enough. If you didn't want to date commercial suppliers you should have just said so back in 2007 and taken the fallout like a man. But now we've been together for YEARS, and instead of making it up to me like you always said you would, you keep me hidden away off the default search so you can pretend I don't exist, and I'm supposed to just be cool with it and take what I can get. Well, I'm tired of it! I'm just as good as those other stores! Plenty of sites are proud to have me on there with everyone else!

The worst part is that I've been trying to make it work between us for so long that it's changed me into a person I didn't want to be. I started to lower my standards and treat MY customers the way you treat ME. And that is just WRONG. They deserve better, and so do I.

That's why I've decided to go back to my first site on Ebay. That's right, EBAY. I know what you're going to say- that they're big and impersonal, and cost too much, and all that. But you know what? Even if they were, it's worth it because Ebay gives me what I need. In fact, they've been there for me the whole time I've been with you. They've never stopped loving me. How do you like THEM apples!

So we're through, Etsy. It'll take me a while to move out all my stuff, but anything left here after my listings have expired, you can just keep or toss.

Girl, I'm on my way over with the EtsyBitch Bus to move your shit out! For refusing to take that abusive open marriage as well as having a pair of big brass ones, and for the line "girls these days expect you to put in time DOWN THERE, especially if YOU expect US to do it" Etsy Bitch hereby awards Charmerz an EB Award for Valor.

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Quotables: Making a Living

Isn't a cardboard box a house?

I have to believe that 99% of the people saying that making a living = being creative and happy are either living with their parents, or living in a small apartment with 10 other people and no car, insurance, children or retirement account.

From what I read in the Forums, it seems that Etsy could help people make a living by advertising to bring them some buyers, rather than by having admitted school dropouts teach them business management. I run a very successful business, and I feel a lot of compassion for the sellers who want a strong venue rather than advice.

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EB comment of the season

forum rubbernecker!

Everybody sing now....

Grandma got run over by some hipsters
While trying to do some shopping Christmas Eve
All their gloves were fingerless
And in temps of 20, I believe

She'd been been shopping for some fun stuff
And they begged her not to buy
But she said " I'm still alive"
And poked her manicured finger in their eye

When we found her Christmas morning
At the scene of the attack
She'd been forced into a rocker
With a quilted pillow at her back

Grandma got run over by some hipsters
While trying to do some shopping Christmas Eve
All their gloves were fingerless
And in temps of 20, I believe

Now we're all so proud of grandpa
He ain't taking it too well
He's gonna tell those hipsters
To eff off and go to
.....

It's not Christmas without rockers
For the old folks you know
And we can't help but wonder
Will the hipsters eat their crow?

Grandma got run over by some hipsters
While trying to do some shopping Christmas Eve
All their gloves were fingerless
And in temps of 20, I believe

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Quotables: Communication, What a concept

Please operate as if you were a business.

I appreciate that an explanation was finally given. In the future, I hope that we are notified BEFORE a change is implemented. It would run alot more smoothly.

...We are deserving of more respect and it shouldn't be necessary for everyone to reach a breaking point before the powers that be at Etsy do the right thing.

A venue situation is very interdependant upon all parties doing the right thing. Bottomline, you guys need to improve your communication skills. PERIOD

This is supposed to be business, having to speculate and having to play guessing games or having to beg for some sort of input from you guys is very counter productive. It needs to change.

Quotables: Definition

Etsy, we got your definition - right here.

etsy is an oxymoron, more moron than oxy most of the time.

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Quotables: What is this "customer service" you speak of?

Dear Etsy, you need to suck it up and admit your mistakes.

I guess the point is this - it's not even the money at this point. It's the customer service principle now. I did NOT mistakenly pick a Monday. My photo shoot was planned for the 25th, I would never have "chosen" the 24th willingly.

Now, if someone bought something from my shop, and I sent them the wrong thing, and gave the customer service I'm receiving, I would have negative feedback, PayPal would revoke my money, and Etsy would be allowed to shut me down if it happened more than once.

Why, I remember way back, when sellers with 500 positives were brick-walled due to a *single* customer complaint that turned out to not even be valid! Talk about tough standards.

Where is my feedback and PayPal option as a buyer? Why the double standard? They can just ignore emails and that's okay? It's okay that they don't have a phone number that we can reach out to them at? If I don't pay this, my shop will cease to function. I can't even contact my credit card company or PayPal for help.

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Busted

Dear Marymary, this was not the first or even the second occurence. This time it was Anda's turn to get her shop prominently featured.

Admin chimed in on this thread 5 times before shutting down the thread. Etsy, did your customers catch you with your panties down? Below are some of the defensive responses from Etsy Admin:

Thanks so much for expressing your concerns with admins that have shops and the possibility of them being featured on the site. To be perfectly honest, we have an internal rule that items from admin shops are not to be featured on the homepage or in the gift guides.

This rule has been in effect for close to a year now and if for any reason you see an item featured on Etsy that might be from an admin shop, you are welcome to send us an email to community [!at] etsy.com and we will have it removed.

A treasury with an item from an admin shop would not be denied a highlight on the front page. The item from the admin shop would simply be excluded from the list of item ID's that are loaded on the front page.

Admins must disclose all of their shops on Etsy in their profiles, yes.

If a treasury is selected and loaded on the front page, the admin item would simply be excluded and in it's place the first alternate would appear.

You can find a list of all admins right here: www.etsy.com/about.php

If the admin has a shop/s, it will be listed in their profile. While I can see how a public list of admin shops might be helpful to some, it also might be viewed as further promotions to admins or unfair in some way...so I don't see this becoming a feature any time soon, I apologize.

The items featured in that article were chosen by a guest writer from Domino magazine. We have since removed the item in question; it should not have been included, and we apologize for the error.

Etsy, Etsy...... tsk. You make it sound like this was a once-in-a-lifetime occurrence. How stupid do you think your customers are? Tens of thousands of shops on Etsy. Yet the same people are highlighted in the Gift Guides, Etsy Finds, on the front page Etsy Admin curated treasuries. That, Etsy, is pathetic.

Screenshot credit goes to Eclipse, sorry I forgot to post that last night.

Quotables: Gift Guides

The truth.

The gift guides are an infuriating bandaid slapped on the bigger problem of the ridiculous search tool. They were created so people who come here to buy a gift can get in and out with minimal frustration, so Etsy can have those sales. Perhaps if Etsy focused more energy on improving categories, tags, and searching they wouldn’t need to play favorites just to keep some sales in-house. If I was a seller I would be beside myself if I wasn’t included among the elite gift guide picks. This whole website is a gift guide. Imagine a big grocery store with crap thrown everywhere and no discernable aisles. No “bread section” no “cereal section” or perhaps those sections DO exist but even when you DO find the bread section there is also flour and eggs and milk and all sorts of things to make bread in that aisle, and also sandwiches and toast and all sorts of things that bread has been used to make. You would go fricking CRAZY trying to buy some damn bread!! So, instead of organizing the store, admin just put a section right by the check-out counters of some special pre-selected bread along with special pre-selected cereal, special pre-selected laundry soap… etc…

And the other people who make bread, even though their bread might ROCK, just because no one can fucking find it, people just buy the bread by the front door.

Outstanding.

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Quotables: Moving on Up

Need a push?

The last 12 hours should give you the push to start your own website if you are serious about being an artist in business.

The catagories have been stuck (yes, again) and no new or renewed items will show up. Yes, I know there is a Storque article telling you to renew as a method to be seen, but if the categories are stuck, and then bulk uploaded, it is not effective.

I want to believe in etsy. I love selling here. But, this is the prime time shopping season and etsy is broken.

Yes, I know you need to bring your own customers here, I do that through expensive ads at my own expense. That however does not excuse the fact that etsy is not working. We need to work in tandem, not against each other.

I'm frustrated.

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EB Comments of the Week, October 26th

upsetwithadmin said...

OH! That explains so much. Now I know why Admin lies all the time. Following in the footsteps of their now ex-CEO.

jodie nicholson said...

Oh Etsy, how your constant fuckitude never fails to disappoint.

Grace said...

Etsy is more like the abusive husband that keeps promising to get therapy and "work on it". Etsy brings you flowers when you least expect it (fancy widgets), but refuses to take out the trash when you ask.

Right now, I'm seeing other websites on the side, and getting my finances in order so that I can file for divorce. A girl can only take so much.

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Quotables: Muted But Not Silent

Truths hurts, suck it up Etsy

I wish that the window that Etsy shows to the outside world was screened as carefully as most of us screen our own work, and the look of our own shops.
It defeats our purposes when staffers make excuses for "mistakes". It's sloppy.

Just what are you getting paid to do, Etsy?

....quality control is not OUR job. Why doesn't Etsy have someone on staff whose job it is to review everything on the public face of Etsy? Of course people will make mistakes but there should be someone other than your CUSTOMERS catching these mistakes.

I know Etsy would like us to contact them "privately" about such items so that you can fix them "discretely". We have done that. The problem persists. The time for discretion is over, since it isn't getting anything accomplished.

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Quotables: Strange Love

Noticed

I'm noticing a strange unconditional love for Etsy in the Forums, like Etsy is a member of your family. Etsy is a place for business, not your drunk, but well meaning, and still quite stylish Aunt.

If something isn't working it should be fixed.

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Quotables: Freaking Taglines

Betty Crocker Cake Frosting Eaters

"Etsy: Everything Handmade, plus supplies, digital art, brought to you by crafters, artisans, copyright infringers, reselling weekend warriors, one-man sweatshops, 50-man 'co-ops', starving artists, destashers, hobbyists, homemakers, college kids, underagers and everything in between!"

Catchy, right?

It's the tagline, not the mission statement. It merely promotes a central idea. It neither intentionally excludes, nor encompasses the entire business plan of Etsy. No tagline does.

Radio Shack: "Don't just buy stuff, do stuff!" Do you write the CEO of Radio Shack and complain that maybe you do in fact just buy stuff and feel offended that you're expected to also do stuff?

McDonald's: "I'm lovin' it!" If you don't actually love McDonalds, do you write the head office demanding that they quit lying about your feelings for them?

Coke: "Unity on the Coke Side of Life" Are you out there, angry that Coke is polarizing the cola wars that Coke should quit implying that Pepsi drinkers are "dividers, not uniters"?

NO. Because it's a slogan, a tagline. Same with Etsy's; JUST. A. TAGLINE. Etsy doesn't need to change their tagline to fit everyone. It is only one marketing tactic in what should be an entire integrated marketing plan.

(P.S. Etsy: before you think I'm defending you, I know your marketing plan consists of a tub of Betty Crocker cake frosting, a trick coin and a dartboard with a screen capture of the home page taped to it. So don't mistake me for one of the koolaid drinkers.)

In summary: Whatever's broken about Etsy, it's not the tagline. The tagline is fine. Everything BELOW the tagline, now...well, that's a topic for another thread or twelve.

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Quotables: How Old is Etsy?

Appearances

Professional. Nope, Etsy does not come across that way at all.

Time Out

Talking to Etsy sometimes feels a bit like argueing with a 4 year old lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala I can't hear you lalalallalalallalalalal Close Thread lalallalallalalalallalalallalalallala

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Took the words out of our mouths...

A long-time Etsy seller has stated it so succinctly - Does Etsy know who their customers are and what they sell?

That's not a trick question - the answer is, the sellers.

And what are they selling? Predominantly art & craft.

And who are they? Independent, self-representing creative people.

Self-employment is tough at the best of times. In a recession, when you're making & marketing non-essential goods, it's even tougher.

Imagine my frustration to see a recent Storque article focused on bargains & sales with the opening lines:"

Feeling a little strain in your billfold lately, or simply trying to not to break the bank? Well, we hear ya, and we decided to run this special Storque edition called "Weekend Deals," highlighting some fantastic shop promotions and sales running this weekend only!"

What about the strain your customer base is feeling, Etsy? What about the sellers trying to get a *fair price* for their work?

In isolation, this article is no big deal. I have no problem with sellers offering sales, if that's how they'd like to operate their business, but I *do* have a problem with Etsy's ongoing inadequate marketing & misrepresentation of art & craft in the media.

In regards to art & craft, context is EVERYTHING. How many art & craft galleries do you know of who run sales & pride themselves on their bargain prices? How many of them like to represent themselves with terms such as "bric-a-brac" & "BOGO"?

That type of image is NOT the way to market art & craft. Key words to emphasise are terms such as..."unique", "exclusive", "quality", "bespoke" - not "two for the price of one this week only!"

Most galleries, you'll find, do their utmost to support & represent their clients - artists & craftspeople - by creating an environment in which they can achieve the best price possible for their work. It's mutually beneficial to do so.

We're selling HANDMADE, not knock-off watches on a street corner (remember that unfortunate image Etsy used to represent us?)

Please Etsy, get a handle on the products you're representing, who your customer base is & what they want & need, & the shopper demographic you should be targeting. In fact, start targeting *any* buyers, because we're currently all suffering for your pitch to recruit as many sellers as possible at the expense of a sustainable buyer/seller ratio.

Seen how low listing views are recently? I keep on hearing reports from admin that sales are up - but percentage of sales per seller are down, we all know that. We're all feeling it.

The most fundamental place to start supporting & understanding your customers & their products is at the most fundamental level - the categories.

I just did some quick sums...

There are almost 2.5 million items currently listed.

The average amount of listings per category is approx. 81,000

The Art Category's total listings are 335% the average.

To put that into context, the Jewellery category, Etsy's largest, has 800% the average, & Music, the smallest category, 2.4% the average.

There is TOO MUCH pressure on the Art & Jewellery categories & the sellers listing there are NOT getting the same value from their .20c listing as those in the smaller categories. With batch updates, new listings get lost within minutes beyond the extent that most buyers are prepared to browse.

It wouldn't be such an issue if we had advanced search, but we don't.

Sellers have called for a simple top level split to the Art Category between Reproductions & Original Art for about 2 years now. Last I heard from admin was it wouldn't be happening. The Jewellery category obviously needs some urgent restructuring too.

This is just one example of a total lack of understanding & support from Etsy towards its customers. It's really getting disheartening.

Actually, I'm way past disheartened now & actively trying other avenues - as they say, insanity is repeatedly doing the same thing & expecting a different outcome.

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