Rob White on Etsy’s Unique Brand of Forum/Seller Discipline

Rob White (RW) has spoken! With 5 consecutive long-winded announcements.

RW follows with cherry-picked “answers to seller questions” to further justify Etsy's wacky practice of locking, banning, muting and other actions Etsy takes against sellers and admits in the same breath that Admins throw the “rules” out the window to apply their own personal judgement:

RW: Context will always play a significant part in what a member posts and how we and other community members will view it. Sometimes we don't see eye to eye with the person posting, sure. But by the time we've reviewed a thread and have elected to take action beyond posting in or closing a thread, a lot of eyes have looked over that scenario.

As I implied previously, this doesn't mean we're mistake-free, and in a few occasions in which members have written in to discuss the matter with us, we've reviewed the incident again, felt that we were mistaken the first time out and rescinded the action.

Admins DON’T SEE EYE TO EYE WITH THE ISSUE/PERSON POSTING? Does that mean that Admins are taking it personally and responding personally, screw the rules?

If I were you Rob, I’d look at 40-50 of the latest THREAD LOCKS and read what Admins are writing in the Forums. Sure looks like they aren’t following any rules at all!

RW may cry mea culpa when mistakes are made but let’s face it. No other self-proclaimed “community site” has a lexicon like Etsy – ban, mute, perma-mute, lock, red-brick, close — and such a public history of changing the rules when they feel like it to “punish” sellers with 2 eyes, not “a lot of eyes” as you claim.

Sellers who’ve expressed concerns for years over the negative consequences of taking ANY part in the Forums can rest assured that the same negative attitudes towards sellers is alive and kicking at Etsy.

Happy Holidays! Here's a Promise of STATS!

Etsy is beta-testing stats. Yes, you heard me, it's not the egg nog or latkas going to your head, they wrote a Dorque article about it. Etsy brought on a small group of sellers to beta-test Google analytics stats.

We have contacted a small group of sellers to help us with beta-testing. We're
hoping to complete beta testing soon, and at that point, we will have more to say about the timing of releasing Google Analytics to the entire seller community. So expect an announcement here on the blog, in the forums, and to the Etsy News email list.

So...Merry Christmas..sort of. No site-wide email for this or the release (as they stated above). No actual timeline for its appearance. BUT they're beta-testing prior to release (which we always harp on them for not doing) and they're going to offer the stats for free. RobWhite is fielding some questions about it on Twitter so following him and Etsy (which autofeeds the Dorque article links there) may be a good way to keep up on its progress (bookmark the sites if you're not signed up for the social network).

Now that you've unwrapped it, don't throw away the bow. Etsy probably wants to use it to make a hammock because they forgot to buy Rokali a gift.

Maintenance complete

According to the Etsy maintenance blog and a thread started, and then closed, by RobWhite, this weekend's scheduled maintenance is complete, and went off without a hitch.

Oh, except all those threads in the bugs forum from people who didn't know there was going to be maintenance and had issues with pictures, listing, showcase, etc.

So far no fall out from the actual work, which was completed about 4 minutes shy of their 6am 'deadline'. Chad is proving himself to be less inept than the previous engineers in charge of this stuff (but then who isn't less inept than Revolving Dick).

May I take this opportunity to point out how important communication is? Etsy, just a suggestion (AGAIN). Email all your members for something like this. It'll help make RW's job in the Bugs forum that much easier. Oh, and remember, when scheduling maintenance, maybe take a look at the retail calendar. kthxbye

More from the Muted

We got this today from Quirke and since we were given permission and the story is so fucking insane, we present it in its entirety.

If you ever doubted the running theory you can say anything on the Etsy Forums as long as you don't question admin's intelligence, motivations or "ah-thoritay"... this letter is for you. You have to supply your own cupcakes to maintain your sugar induced blissfull ignorance. We'd ask Etsy to respond but fuck them. We're not that kind of blog and their actions speak louder than words so who gives a crap what they say anyway.

Hello Bitches

I am writing to you to let you and your readers know what can happen to them if they openly criticize the failures of Etsy admin.

I have been muted for 7 days for this thread.

Three different admins – Rob W, Lauren, and Mary – weighed in on that thread but did not close it. In the end it was closed due to an argument between two people that had nothing to do with either myself or the issue at hand.

While that thread was still open, I received a convo from Stellaloella/Lauren. She told me she participated in the review process for featured items and had let the Content Team know about the item I saw that prompted me to start the thread. She also asked for other examples of rule-breaking that had been promoted. I sent her five examples.

On Friday I became aware that admin had featured both treasuries of a double-dipping curator on the very same day. I started a thread about it here, which was swiftly locked.

The next day I received the notification that I was muted for 7 days. They felt the need to hammer this home so much that they sent it to five different email addresses of mine, including one that is not attached to any Etsy account.

The given reason was "calling out". If it was calling out, why did that thread stay open, with three different admin posting in response, and only closed when two people became disrespectful to each other?

I was calling out admin. Sellers and buyers call each other out every day on the forums without being muted in response. People are abusive to each other every day without being punished. Apparently you can even get away with calling Matt a c*nt without repercussion. But point out admin is either willfully ignoring their own rules or too blind to notice when they're being broken, and you will get a week's detention. Reply to an admin who disingenuously asks for "examples", and get gagged.

Rule-breakers don't get punished, but people who point out rule-breakers do.

Incidentally, the item which prompted me to start that thread is still there, still breaking the rules.

You have my permission to publish this in its entirety.

God knows Quirke is no virgin to mystery Etsy mutings, but regardless - this is a completely insane banning.

For shame Esty, you should be embracing those who point out your mistakes, not punish them like petulant children when it's your site they are trying to improve. Maybe if you did your jobs you'd have less to panic about covering them up.

Don't Flag a Reseller, Call Them Out in the Forums!

...because it works. It took only 30 minutes for the reseller's shop to vanish. During the 90 minute lifespan of this thread, more than a few apparent reseller links were posted. Rob White closed the thread on this note:

This is not the way.


Again, I understand that you're frustrated, and I have every intention of contributing to internal discussions about flagging and about those who open Etsy accounts without any apparent intentions of following our rules.

However, breaking the rules written for the community spaces of Etsy in no way expedites the handling of any given case, and simply presents a new issue based out of the same situation. None of us want to see those who break rules on Etsy continue to do so, and intractable cases are handled appropriately.

We think it speaks volumes about seller frustration towards the apparent free reign of resellers - especially on the weekend reseller-free-for-all.

Office Hours today!

You can chat with Matt today at 11am EDT, or with RobWhite at 7pm, in the Virtual Labs Treehouse!

We encourage you all to go and ask uncomfortable questions about shoddy copyright policies and be generally bitchy.

Meet Jared, er Jay, er... what?

In getting to know our beloved admin better, and thusly gain insight into madness, I delved into the "about us" section on Etsy.

I stumbled on Jay, whose real name is Jared but the page explains:

"His real name is Jared, but Etsy admins decided to rename him Jay, so as not to be confused with Jared Tarbell. No one else in the whole world calls him Jay. Just us. His mom hates it."

I have one of the most common names around, and have worked in office with others of the same name, and in one case the EXACT same given and surname that I have as well, and we all managed to find a way to identify each other without changing anything. But Etsy can't manage two Jared's?

What's that mean for Rob White if he ever moves to work in Brooklyn? Will they have to rename him "Buttercup" so as not to be stumped on payday?

A new award for Valor

VeryBigJen, you have fought a hard battle. Etsy Admin seem to have it out for you. Apparently it is okay to accuse someone of being an EB and going batshit crazy on them, but not to call the accuser a lame ass for using the word "buck" instead of fuck.

I thought calling out and bringing non-Etsy business into the forums was a no-no. Oh, and notice this: the e-mail was sent to VBJ on 06/28 at 330pm. It took Etsy a full 3 days to act on muting VeryBigJen. Yeah, consistency is a load of bullshit.

VeryBigJen, since you are not an actual EB, you can be an honorary one. As is anyone who posts for the greater good. But you took a direct attack for us, and that is admirable and valorous.

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5680423&page=32
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5680423&page=35

For that she was muted for 7 days.

Rob, sir, you are a douchebag for this action. VeryBigJen was attacked, provoked and yet you punish the innocent. What a reactionary response, and very immature to boot.

VeryBigJen, feel free to use any of our valor awards in your banner.

Quotable Quotes: Brushwork

The Great Mineral Make-Up Brush Countdown has started:

"We appreciate you sharing your thoughts on makeup brushes and how they should or shouldn't be listed. We're taking this opportunity to review this matter and the restrictions set for these items. Should we have further questions that haven't been addressed in the connected threads, we'll bring them to you to get community input before making a decision. Thank you again for your patience."

I'm taking bets on how long before mineral makeup sellers and buyers get their answer, post them in comments.

And The Award Goes To...

Friday in the EtsyLabs Lounge Robwhite held his normal "office hours". It just so happened to occur smack dab at the peak of the 'Etsy editing transaction pages scandal'.

Everyone wanted answers, and they wanted them yesterday. Rob had not much to say. Luckily Rob is well liked by all, it could have been much much worse. If Rokali had been there it would have swiftly spiraled into a clusterfuck.

Many of the lampworkers who were part of the site that broke this scandal were there to demand answers in very polite ways, and yet Robwhite was in there alone. ALONE in the face of a major public relations blunder so huge it's been on at least a dozen websites. So big it's taken over most of the forums in various ways and has resulted in scenting the Etsy air with general surly revolty yumminess. (Have you noticed how deliciously bitchy the forums are the last few days?)

There were no other Etsy staff in with Robwhite to face down the growling, seething crowd. They sacrificed him as if tossing a lamb into the shark tank. They left him hanging in the wind while they made dry ice mustaches, and still Rob was friendly and trying his best to keep up and try to at least deal with everyone. His one hour turning to over three and forgoing food and drink to try to answer things the best he could in the typically Etsy non-committal way. That's not his fault. He did what he could.

His hands were tied, because let's face it, Etsy doesn't KNOW what it did that was so wrong, and they don't get why the whole scandal was so scandalous. They don't get why anyone was even upset so they have no answers to give on what they will do to prevent it from happening again.

We felt sorry for Robwhite being abandoned by his coworkers and slugging it through all the same like the trooper he is. So much so we decided our he'd be the first, and likely the only Etsy Admin, to receive....

The EtsyBitch Award For Valor!

As is his right as a member of the order, he may style himself as a "Knight of the Bitch" and may bear any of these avatars we have prepared to represent his status:

or overlay this star to his avatar or account banner...

Congrats Robwhite! We really honestly do appreciate all you do, or try to do. We know they are idiots.

We plan on issuing more EB Awards For Valor in the coming weeks to those in the forums committing acts of sense and surliness. So get out there and ask questions they don't want to answer, smack down the smackdownable, and most importantly... get bitchy about Etsy!

Quotable Quotes: Respect Others

Best thread lock I've seen in a while:

"For the sake of preserving feelings and otherwise preventing the bashing of anyone - community members, presidential candidates, members of religious faith and anyone else I'm missing, I'm shutting this one down."

This is how I feel...

This is how I feel when dealing with either Etsy Admin or one of its cheerleaders on the forums.

Seriously! I don't hate Etsy as a whole, I don't hate RobWhite, but I think that there are some seriously toxic Admin currently employed by Etsy who have caused and will continue to cause problems. Obviously, that $27 million didn't buy them brains.. Well, maybe not until Maria takes charge. When is that going to be anyway??

There's a difference ...

Hi, gang!

In reference to this (now locked) thread... As the author of the earlier posted review of the video made of RobWhite, I just want to repeat what I said in the review: I think RobWhite is a great guy.

My problems are with the video. Not RobWhite. The video. That clear? Good. I thought it was the first time, but apparently not. Apparently some people can't read. That's okay, I've notice that on the Forums, too.

It's the video that makes RobWhite look like a putz. It's not that he is a putz. I don't for a moment think he's a putz. He's a nice guy trying to do a good job in what must be a very challenging environment. He's a great writer and probably a lovely dancer.

Rob -- I don't think you're a putz at all.

The video, the video is another matter. The video is idiotic, a waste of time, and would make anyone look like an idiot. Seriously, people. Why is Etsy spending its time making its staff look like jerks? Who is their target audience for this crap? All the seven year olds I know would be repelled by it.

That is all.

Best use of time and resources? Hmmm ...

First of all, I just want to say that I like RobWhite. He seems like a nice guy. He's really closely associated with a few of the nastiest Admin going, but he himself seems pretty sweet. He's one of the few Admin on the Forum watch who writes like he cares about his customers. He's probably second only to Matt for being able to communicate with sellers without condescending to them. Or outright insulting them.

But this video? Sheesh.


Is it just me, or does this video make the poor guy look like a putz? Could this have been done in a more infantalizing way? For both RobWhite and the audience? What's with the handpuppets? And the dance break? Are we all in kindergarten? Have I gone nuts?

There are SERIOUS problems at Etsy, guys. Making cookies, playing with handpuppets and shooting childish videos aren't fixing the issues Etsy seller abitabite brings up in this anguished Forum thread.

On the Etsy Admin to do list: add a notice to the Storque article about the introduction of the policy page (which isn't actually working) or produce some more puerile twaddle? Etsy will choose the twaddle every time.